More powerful and legal e-bikes on the way!!!

[Deleted member 4366]

If the power is increased from 250w, the pedelec sensors are not so easy to control the speed of the bike. Some are speed controlled so that the faster you pedal, the more power you get, but that's useless if you've tried it. Some just give full power when you pedal: That's OK for low power, but no good for higher power. Some have torque control so that the harder you pedal, the more power you get: Better, but can make you work harder than you want, and you can't get high power with light pedalling. Hopefully the controller designers will sort it out, but they haven't yet.

 

[timidtom]

This pair of unfit oldies rely on the throttle to move off safely & wobble-free at junctions and in stop/start traffic. Pedelec is fine for the rest of the rides but without the security of the throttle there wouldn't be any rides. Long live twist & go!
Tom

 

[Scottyf]

You can't control wheelies without a throttle...

 

[bigroy]

glad to see you on here again Dave.

 

[lemmy]

You can't control wheelies without a throttle...

You can pull better wheelies on pedal power than you ever can on electric power. Just watch any kid on a BMX

Seriously, I have to watch my Tasman in first gear because if I start off and press too hard on the pedals without thinking, up comes the front wheel.

 

[flecc]

You can pull better wheelies on pedal power than you ever can on electric power.

Seriously, I have to watch my Tasman in first gear because if I start off and press too hard on the pedals without thinking, up comes the front wheel.

Absolutely. pedelec is best for wheelies, whether on the Panasonic based system due to it's torque sensor or on instant full power with pedal turn like the old Quando setup.

 

[Scottyf]

God bless the torque on electric motors!


In all seriousness though it may encourage suppliers and kit developers to design better pedelec functions instead of the methods listed above by Dave.
As the additional power will need some taming at slower speeds.

 

[flecc]

In all seriousness though it may encourage suppliers and kit developers to design better pedelec functions instead of the methods listed above by Dave.
As the additional power will need some taming at slower speeds.

It is gradually happening, the frame distortion type that Giant uses is very good in practice and is likely to be more widely seen. The best ones are generally those based on more pedal pressure equals more motor power. I suspect the legislators like those too, as that is entirely consistent with them remaining bicycles, normal bikes working that way too.

That's not so good with higher powers as d8veh has remarked, but having three or more switched power levels as some already do can alleviate that somewhat.

 

[eTim]

I have to say that the pedelec function on the Bosch is superb, I get very fine control at extremely low speed/complete stop, uphill and on the flat, even in the higher settings! I've not spent any time on other pedelecs so can't compare with others.

And wheelies are easy too, I find stoppies harder and have come a cropper a couple of times when I haven't modulated the front brake properly

 

[mike killay]

The problem with the more sophisticated (ie expensive)pedelec is that it will only deliver full power if you pedal reasonably hard. For the slightly disabled etc. this is no good and that is why they need a throttle.
The simpler versions vary from full power at the slightest turn of the pedals which can be alarming, to a gradually introduction after 2 or so full turns............no good for starting on steep hills.
I can understand the European ideas, but feel that most potential users in the UK would be far happier with a throttle, because they will understand it.
Anyway, if things go wrong Euro wise, our jubilation at increased motor sizes might be short lived!

 

[flecc]

Anyway, if things go wrong Euro wise, our jubilation at increased motor sizes might be short lived!

I don't think we need worry about the effect of today's news on our e-biking. We are part of the free trading aspect of Europe with it's borderless nature, this even Cameron and co. wishing to protect. Transport harmonisation has long been a necessary aspect of that and it will undoubtedly stay on course.

 

[indalo]

Transport harmonisation has long been a necessary aspect of that and it will undoubtedly stay on course.

Perhaps, given Cameron's stance and the position in which that leaves the UK, should we make a gesture of intent towards harmonisation by offering to switch our driving to the other side of the road?

Indalo

 

[flecc]

Perhaps, given Cameron's stance and the position in which that leaves the UK, should we make a gesture of intent towards harmonisation by offering to switch our driving to the other side of the road?

Indalo

No, that won't happen since Sweden's experience with switching many years ago and it's permanent ill-effects. In fact harmonisation in this context is mainly about the vehicles and their usage.

 

[lemmy]

No, that won't happen since Sweden's experience with switching many years ago and it's permanent ill-effects.

Yes but they phased it in whereas we'd build on their experience and do it all at the same time.

 

[flecc]

Yes but they phased it in whereas we'd build on their experience and do it all at the same time.

No they didn't, the changeover took place at 5am on Sunday, 3 September 1967, no phasing. Perhaps significantly, that date was an anniversary of the start of World War 2.

As so often happens, when what actually happens is inconvenient, subsequent "history" takes care of the problem. In reality their accident rate rose by around 10% and the expected decline as people got used to the change didn't happen, the rate stayed stubbornly higher. Look up the history now and you'll be told exactly the opposite.

The 75 countries who drive on the left watched the Swedish experience at the time of course and aren't fooled, which is why they've stayed as they were for the 44 years since.

 

[Mussels]

My problem with using pedeec only is the gearing is too high and I suspect this is the case for most non-Panasonic systems. With a lower gear I could set off easily and the crank would travel quicker making the power come on quicker.
I used to use the throttle all the time but since getting a bike with an awkward half throttle I hardly use it and haven't really missed it. I'd still like to keep it but if I can't it's no great loss.

 

[Miles]

Unless I've missed it, no one has commented on the significance of this:

"E-bikes, that is bicycles with an auxiliary motor that can propel the vehicle even if the cyclist is not pedalling , would be excluded from the type-approval provided their speed is limited to 25 km/h and their weight to 25 kg. Thanks to the weight limit, these vehicles would in the case of an accident present no more potential risk of injury than a conventional bicycle or a 25 km/h pedelec. Therefore, it is logical to exclude them from the type-approval in order to make them subject to the same regulatory framework as pedelecs 25 km/h. This exclusion also provides legal certainty for innovative light electric vehicles such as Yikebike."

Ref: ETRA - News (Common Issues) - European Parliament takes major step in better regulations for electric bikes

Miles

 

[lemmy]

No they didn't, the changeover took place at 5am on Sunday, 3 September 1967, no phasing. Perhaps significantly, that date was an anniversary of the start of World War 2.

Flecc, that was a joke! Can you imagine what would happen if it was phased in?

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I think that the weight limit is a bit of a problem although it seems that they're still thinking about changing it. It means my Giant BPM with 20aH Ping is just in if I remove the lights, mudguards and toolkit.

If they kept the 25kg weigt limit and you had a bike that was say 24.5kg and then you added a water bottle and lights. Would that make it illegal?

 

[karl101]

If they kept the 25kg weigt limit and you had a bike that was say 24.5kg and then you added a water bottle and lights. Would that make it illegal?

I would think they mean the weight of the bike is set by the major components: the frame, battery, wheels, handlebars etc. Other removable items such as the water bottle, toolkit, lock, pannier bags and the rider would not be included in that weight.

Also, by limiting the weight this should be encouraging manufacturers to make lower weight batteries that deliver more power?

Karl.