More powerful and legal e-bikes on the way!!!

[Deleted member 4366]

V

I don't really see any need for a legal higher level of permissible power output as that which applies currently is adequate. If the only reason for extra power is to afford higher speed, whether it's uphill or on the flat, then it's clearly unnecessary.

Indalo

I'm not sure that you got the point. The idea is to limit the speed not the power. This means effortless pedalling even up steep hills, whilst still keeping to a sensible speed. I guess that they've finally figured out that it's almost impossible to police the present regulations regarding power, while it's easy to check a maximum speed.

 

[eddieo]

so if I can be trusted to drive a 200 mph super car within the law does it now mean I can maybe purchase the S class Bosch that I covet?

 

[flecc]

Seems it will become true Eddie, I believe it's only 350 watts rated so not a big step up anyway. It will be good to get those 350 and 500 Watt German bikes added to our present choice of e-bikes.

More importantly though, I see this as an opportunity for far wider sales to those who like the idea and the economy of an e-bike but who just don't fancy large pedalling effort. It can open the door to many more of todays car owners, and also bring more e-biking to the very hilly areas like mine where sales of present inadequately powered models are understandably extremely low.

 

[hihihi]

A dream come true, for the cyclist - nightmare for others?
My imagination is stirred.

Thanks for the news flecc!


How will the manufacturer and retailer view this; for example: might current units become redundant and who will bear the burden of change?

It appears the consumer will benefit from a better product, eventually. Which is exciting...

 

[lemmy]

As an off the wall corollary to this, my constant use of my Tasman due to its ease of use has strengthened my legs so much that the other day I went out on my Brompton on routes I only normally use on the ebike and I realized I hardly need the electric power anyway.

I always seem to find myself at odds with others. I am seeking to be able to nuance the power available to me. I live in a world where for most people, too much power is not enough. Somewhere I went wrong.

I also seem to live in a world where all ebikers want other people to ride ebikes too. Why?

I never understood religion so I guess I don't understand evangelism in any form, Christian, Muslim or ebike...

 

[NRG]

With fit riders in their younger or middle years and average hills it may well be.

Otherwise I have to agree with Mussels, it isn't enough for steeper hills, especially with heavier riders and/or any degree of disability or age reduction in ability. A minimum of a 500 watts rating should just about cope, and the higher power German class tends to support that, 500 watts being the de facto standard of manufacturers there.

There's also the safety factor of adequate climb speed. It's much safer to climb at over 12 mph, so nearer to the speeds of other traffic, than crawl up in a wobbly fashion at 5/6 mph.

However, I do agree on the need for throttles for some, especially those with leg related disability.

A 20 amp controller gives you 500W at the wheel after losses, as the legal speed is still stuck at 15.5mph best climb speed will still be at half of that so 7~8mph....I'm struggling to see the 'increased' power as a benefit. Retention of a throttle is more helpful.

As said though, 500 watt rating. That means their peak power will also double.

Only if the controller becomes 40 amp...which means bigger AH or better batteries which = more initial cost and higher replacement cost plus more weight.


Or to put it another way I feel it would have been better to lobby for retention of a throttle instead of a power increase and BTW I welcome any loosening of restrictions...

 

[Deleted member 4366]

I live in a world where for most people, too much power is not enough. Somewhere I went wrong.

I also seem to live in a world where all ebikers want other people to ride ebikes too. Why?

It's not about having ever more power. I think Flecc explained it really well, but just to summarise what he said: It's about Mr/Mrs average, who can't run accross the road to catch a bus being able to go up hills on an ebike without giving themselves heart atteacks.

NRG: 20 amps is not enough and 40 amps is too much. In my experience, about 25 to 27amps is enough to get lardy people up moderately steep hills without too much effort. No need to worry about overweight batteries because by the time the law is passed new lighter more powerful batteries will be available.

 

[Eaglerider]

Wonderful news, and if that's all that gets changed then it's a rather sensible move. Even with the awesome power of my E-Beast, I cannot climb back home without some medium pedalling, so it might help there.
I agree with Flecc that it would make a really fun activity available to many more folk who could not otherwise countenance heavy pedalling for any length of time, but they could certainly benefit from the magic sensation of cruising through the countryside in effortless silence.

For my part, I'm now commencing the design of my 15 Terrawatt drag bike. 0 to 15.5 mph in 0.1 seconds! Should be fun.

 

[fishingpaul]

Most ebike sellers seem to be selling bikes with fairly low 15a controllers,so they can then promote longer range distances and guarantee the battery for longer,to give extra hill climbing power the range will shorten considerably and the load on the battery will increase,so bigger amp hour batteries will be needed pushing the already high ebike prices even higher,this adds up to more moped like bikes at far more than a moped cost.

 

[Scottyf]

Well as long as you get a slightly better c rate cell it's not an issue you just loose a bit if range depending on terrain. You don't need a larger battery. Just better cells.

Most of the normal ebikes that use a 15amp peak could easily be made to draw a peak of say 20 to help with the climb. As it's only a peak the draw for current lessens as speed increases anyway.
When I went from 20amp to 27amp the actual additional capacity I used went from 4 to 5amp on 12miles. That was a 20% increase but I'd increased peak draw by 40%.

Anyway it does mean if it all goes though and you wanted to change to a larger motor and have better hill climbing you can.

You can still use a 3speed switch to go for performance, average or leisure speeds to increase your range. It just gives you more options.

Instill see it as a good thing. I'm summer I took the electric off my bike. And no my route doesn't take much longer without electric as it's not that hilly at all. But sometimes it's nice to commute home quick and happily. If I know I have to ride back sometimes it's a pain. Untill I start doing it unassisted and it's fun again.

There's nit many people here that use the full range of the battery in all one go anyway. Most people over specify a battery based on their needs. An industry standard of 10ah is good in my eyes with moderate pedalling about 30mile. But I wouldn't do that in all one go and top up most places.

Getting people out and cycling or exercising is hard enough as it is. With an ebike it's a nice easy intro into it.

 

[lemmy]

It's about Mr/Mrs average, who can't run accross the road to catch a bus being able to go up hills on an ebike without giving themselves heart atteacks.

Instead of pandering to them, maybe they could be encouraged to get a bit fitter. The very thing that might get them more healthy is compromised by giving them power to cut their effort.

If someone is too lazy to get out of bed, would you design them a more comfortable bed? I can see all the arguments for more power, but the people we are talking about here would be better served by a Honda step through or a small scooter, far less risk of a heart attack if that is the motivation for more power. It's their business whether they are fit or not.

I don't see e-bikes as a force for social engineering or a tool for do-gooders. They are just transport. If ebikers demand more power, that's one thing but I don't see why, because I cycle most places, I would think everyone else should too.

 

[flecc]

Or to put it another way I feel it would have been better to lobby for retention of a throttle instead of a power increase and BTW I welcome any loosening of restrictions...

I won't continue to answer on the more power aspect since those who would benefit have been so well illustrated already.

Throttles are a non-issue in this context though, retention isn't possible when they don't legally exist in Europe from where this change emanates.

Even in Britain where they do exist, it's only by default as a result of a civil service error in 2003, legally they should have gone years ago. Even the throttles that do exist here in the UK are mostly illegal, permitted only in 200 watt British law but used with EU regulation bikes having 250 watts, neatly breaching both laws.

I'm not arguing against throttles, I'd like them to be permitted, just observing the real situation.

We may yet end up with the worst of all worlds in Britain, as we so often do in EU matters. The plea for throttles that many of us made a short while ago when representations were invited are on balance likely to be ignored. At the same time, the nanny state inclinations of our British governments may cause a refusal to accept this latest EU measure with adoption of the old 250 watts power only. That combination would suit no-one.

 

[flecc]

I don't see e-bikes as a force for social engineering or a tool for do-gooders. They are just transport. If ebikers demand more power, that's one thing but I don't see why, because I cycle most places, I would think everyone else should too.

I agree. I just see e-bikes as a way to get more cycling, not for social engineering reasons but to create enough cyclists to get get better facilities and greater safety through numbers. I'd be just as happy if e-biking made most fit enough to use normal bikes. Otherwise I couldn't care less if any individual cycles or not.

 

[indalo]

Not having looked for a long time, I just checked out the costs involved in moped ownership. I was astonished at how cheaply one can purchase a little moped and with road fund licence of £16, registration at £55, relatively cheap insurance, and a hemet......seems perfect for those who can't be bothered pedalling yet want to get from A to B much quicker than 15.5mph.

Even allowing for some appropriate clothing on top of those other costs, most people could expect change back from a grand.....and they can go much quicker legally than an ebike without pedalling, (did I mention that?)

I think you can safely say that I'm not persuaded by those who attempt to justify increased power for electrically assisted bicycles and the point is not lost on me that the people who make money from selling ebikes seem to be channelling their energies into persuading us we should be buying their latest £2000-£5000 offerings. Are they really worth four to ten times the price of a small moped?

Indalo

 

[indalo]

Blimey! Further to my last, I just checked out electric mopeds and the first one I looked at, a Buzz model is yours today for £1399 and there's no road tax on those!

The seller claims a range of 40 miles with a top speed of 40mph.........is it just me or are ebikes too expensive?

Indalo

 

[Morgann]

Originally Posted by lemmy

"I don't see e-bikes as a force for social engineering or a tool for do-gooders. They are just transport."

Historically speaking of course, the Bicycle was a huge force for social change. Just like the Railways
It allowed the worker to get to other places of work that he would not otherwise have been able to reach on foot forcing competition for labour onto the mill and factory owners hence, better wages.

Question tho: Having just bought a 250w bike; how easy will it be to upgrade?

 

[banbury frank]

Hi In stock NOW our new 2012 model

Raleigh diamond back conversion with 10 AH 48 volt Battery (500 watt hours )
rear rack mounted

rear 1,500 watt motor twist and go throttle Electronically limited to 15 MPH

Diamondback - Peak

Price £1,295

Frank

 

[tillson]

Hi In stock NOW our new 2012 model

Raleigh diamond back conversion with 10 AH 48 volt Battery (500 watt hours )
rear rack mounted

rear 1,500 watt motor twist and go throttle Electronically limited to 15 MPH

Diamondback - Peak

Price £1,295

Frank

I hadn't realised that the change in the law to allow higher powered bikes had happened already. That was quick. 1500 Watts as well.

 

[Mussels]

There are several advantages to ebikes that make the extra money worthwhile to some people.

• No license required.
• Can ride at 14.
• No license plate required.
• Cheaper and easier parking.
• Can be ridden on cycle paths.

A powerful 15mph moped is going to be very attractive to a 14 year old kid, if they get popular then they will fast become a menace with calls to do something about them. Insisting on them being controlled by pedalling will do a lot to stop that, without it we'll just have 15mph unregistered scooters appearing on the market and many of them will be tweaked for higher speed.

I see nothing wrong with more power to the motor. Though I now feel extra is unnecessary if I was buying my first ebike I'd go for the most powerful unless reviews said they were an expensive luxury that made little difference.

 

[Mussels]

Hi In stock NOW our new 2012 model

Raleigh diamond back conversion with 10 AH 48 volt Battery (500 watt hours )
rear rack mounted

rear 1,500 watt motor twist and go throttle Electronically limited to 15 MPH

Diamondback - Peak

Price £1,295

Frank

Some of your posts really look like blatant spam. I know you pay for the privilige but please tone it down a little and make it look relevant to the thread rather than a copy & paste from your latest flyer.