Mechanical doping ???

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

She did have a powered bike at the venue but wasn't using it in the event. The fact that she had that bike there makes it impossible for her to defend herself, it was foolish of course.

However, I'm sure the accusation is nonsense and it's the second time it's been made against a rider. The facts are these:

These motors are noisy enough to instantly reveal themselves if used.

The battery in the seat tube is too tiny to make any real contribution to what a powerful rider can do, and the circa 100 watts of maximum power would be largely offset by the added weight.

They are too easy to detect, all one has to do is use the seat stem quick release to expose the frame's seat tube battery inside. In addition, the cut-off short saddle stem to make space for motor and battery immediately gives the game away.

Another way to detect is just to turn the rear wheel backwards, that immediately means turning the motor in reverse, which with this bevel drive system is very difficult due to the amount of drag, That drag immediately shows it's not a normal bike transmission, so scrutineering isn't a problem.

It was inevitable that the invention of such a motor system would inspire conspiracy theorists to grab what looked like an opportunity. If they had the faintest idea of the facts they might not come out with such nonsense.
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So she,s retired for nothing ???
Motor could easily be straight cut pinion so would spin in reverse and 100w would easily off set its weight penalty, if it couldn't electric bikes would never work.( her average output without help is unlikely to be over 400 watts. ( if that) Just do power to weight ratios, its bound to be beneficial...if it works!!!( report I read suggested rear wheel had locked,scrutineer thought it strange, tried removing bottom bracket and couldn't)
But I do agree, any scrutineet should easily be able to tell ( surely there must be a weight penalty..this high tech carbon framed bike of yours weighs 16 kg???)
Read a report a couple of years ago about a rider who fell and back wheel carried on spinning !!
My background was motorsport and many felt in that what the scrutineer couldn't find was ok..generally mid runners could get away with loads ( from nitrous hidden away in fire extinguishers ,to engines stamped as 1300,s when actually they were really 1600..just means now folk spend more time in scrutineering tent than driving..
Perhaps a Pedelec race series should be started !
Max weight of bike 20kg and a regulation 400w/h battery..1 hr race ???

 

[flecc]

So she,s retired for nothing ???
Motor could easily be straight cut pinion so would spin in reverse

|s I've already posted, she was silly enough to also have that powered bike present at the meeting, making any defence suspect enough to prompt her to do the obvious.

And no, a bevel drive wouldn't spin freely in reverse, due to the reduction ratio reversed to create the unavoidable drag, plus the notching of the motor magnets.

And as I'm having to post repeatedly, now the accusations exist, there's no longer any point trying with such easy instant detectability. There's never been an easier and quicker scrutineering job.
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[flecc]

Perhaps a Pedelec race series should be started !
Max weight of bike 20kg and a regulation 400w/h battery..1 hr race ???

We had a pedelec race series at Presteigne for three years, but that hasn't run for a while now. Using essentially illegal e-bikes there was little point.
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[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

Think you are being a touch naive here flec.
Having srutineered at motor events you,d be amazed at both folks ingenuity and gall to cheat.
The technology is easily available with many solutions for either freewheeling when not in use ,to bike overspinning motor .
Secondly explain why she has retired ??? According to you nothing has happened, yet it was widely reported yesterday she has done so ? (at 19) ???

And BTW don't feel pressure to repeatedly post, we are all perfectly happy in blissful ignorance.

For the lady in question a 100w addition of power with I,ve guessed an 8kg ( could be lots lighter) would see her power to weight ratio increase by 0.9 watts/ kg..There would be almost zero drag penalty.( would be pretty stupid having wires dangling around or batteries taped to cross bars)

 

[Gubbins]

I really like conspiracy theories, as long as not taken too seriously they can provide an entertaining banter..
In this case anything is possible.. for example..
I have a watch that looks just like any other watch but it is driven by light so never needs a battery replacement or recharge. In fact I have two of these (each slightly different) one is 7 years old and the other is 5 years old, neither has ever been adjusted and both show the correct time.
I have a phone that charges wirelessly..
You can get insoles that generate a charge whist you are walking.
There are fabrics that can generate solar power.
So, with a photovoltaic suit and helmet, a light sensitive painted frame and shoes pumping out watts while you pedal, all wirelessly connected to a lightweight plastic motor.... who need batteries?
p.s. Is Elvis really dead?

 

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

I really like conspiracy theories, as long as not taken too seriously they can provide an entertaining banter..
In this case anything is possible.. for example..
I have a watch that looks just like any other watch but it is driven by light so never needs a battery replacement or recharge. In fact I have two of these (each slightly different) one is 7 years old and the other is 5 years old, neither has ever been adjusted and both show the correct time.
I have a phone that charges wirelessly..
You can get insoles that generate a charge whist you are walking.
There are fabrics that can generate solar power.
So, with a photovoltaic suit and helmet, a light sensitive painted frame and shoes pumping out watts while you pedal, all wirelessly connected to a lightweight plastic motor.... who need batteries?
p.s. Is Elvis really dead?

I like your post Phil...humour and irony are much sharper tools than condescension.
Am I missing something here. Are we actually saying the girl didn't cheat, the bike wasn't used,or sky sports have made entire story up ???
Or perhaps bike doesn't exist ?? She,s taken early retirement to ride horses or something ???

Please explain...

Wish my car racing competitors were same as on here..I,d have had nitrous , bigger engines,fatter tyres ,lighter car . ( but still probably lost, would have been good fun building car tho)

 

[flecc]

Think you are being a touch naive here flec.
Having srutineered at motor events you,d be amazed at both folks ingenuity and gall to cheat.
The technology is easily available with many solutions for either freewheeling when not in use ,to bike overspinning motor .
Secondly explain why she has retired ??? According to you nothing has happened, yet it was widely reported yesterday she has done so ? (at 19) ???

I'm not being naive at all, as a qualified motor mechanic with lots of interest in the sport I'm well aware of that cunning. But this issue is different, we're speaking of competition bikes, not cars, and you are ignoring the obvious in order to propagate the impossible.

E-bike motors already freewheel when out of use or over-ridden, but cannot freewheel in reverse since they couldn't drive of they did. The only way that reverse drag could be avoided is by an additional electric clutch, which given the space confines and minimal available battery power isn't practical.

And you still haven't answered the noise objection, these tiny diameter motors are far from silent and cannot be. Equally without an answer is the battery access to insert and change the cells, all impossible in a bike frame without obvious access points.

And finally, let's assume she did cheat by actually using that bike. She was the exposed was she not? As I posted, the story is out there, making trying now a waste of time. These Vivax motors are instantly detectable as that check showed.
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[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Have you tried riding one of these bikes with it fitted? We had one at the Cycle Show back in 2012 I think it was, it was amazing.

This is also worth a watch.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Secondly explain why she has retired ??? According to you nothing has happened, yet it was widely reported yesterday she has done so ? (at 19) ???

Read the history of those around her that should clear up part of the mystery...

 

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

Good video.. Thanks for posting.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Am I missing something here. Are we actually saying the girl didn't cheat, the bike wasn't used,or sky sports have made entire story up ???
Or perhaps bike doesn't exist ?? She,s taken early retirement to ride horses or something ???

No she didn't cheat the bike was in the van but unused. Sports journalists are doing what they do best, sensationalism. I have the feeling there are very few real journalists left. None with ethics that is for sure.

 

[flecc]

I,m quite interested to know exactly how system they tried worked, what it weighed and why they thought they,d get away with it..
It seems you know everything about it , so please post details..

She never at any time denied that bike with a motor, she merely said at the time that it was not the one she used for the event. The fact is that the story being reported now is not the one released at the time. If what is now being claimed is true and she was pulled out and the bike immediately exposed, why would she then say it wasn't the one used? That is only commensurate with the original story, that someone later realised she had a motorised one and suspected she'd used it.

P.S. See another kiwi's post above, the original story.

And the motor system is no secret, her bike with the motor had the Vivax system. The motor is in the seat stem, driving a bevel gear on the pedal shaft with no additional two way clutch, just one way freewheeling. The battery sits above it in the seat tube and the wiring and connector are between the battery and motor. The saddle stem has to be cut off short to accommodate those. This immediately exposes a flaw in the Sky story, lifting out the saddle and seat stem doesn't expose any wires in the tube, it exposes the battery.

A qualified mechanic who cant think there is a way to disengage power ??? Or a transmission system that transmits both directions

Perhaps you should read my post before posting irrelevancies. It made no mention of disengaging power since that wasn't being discussed, and I did mention a method of having two way disengagement of drive. We aren't discussing two way transmission, it's two way disconnection that's in question.
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[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

According to reports
A) She did use the bike.(The UCI confirmed on Sunday that " a mechanically doped bike was used in world championship cyclocross", perhaps not this girl then ?)
B) Authorities are now using infra red heat cameras to view hot spots on bikes. So it cant be that easy to spot.
C) If you watch above video bike is travelling above max cadence of aid with system ( 86 rpm)He went over 86 rpm, system worked , inspire of flec's claims.
D) Plainly the system is advantageous, again in spite of flec,s claims re weight penalty.

But probably the Guardian, Times, Sky News and UCI are all wrong.

With regards to the girls claims....
She insists the bike was unused and not hers, yet the ilegal bike was in parc ferme and as such is under scrutiny and must pass legislation etc. She claims to have not used bike but had mechanical failure on her "other". Authorities have confiscated the "illegal bike" and claim (?) it was the one she rode.

The hearing has as yet not taken place , but in mean time UCI have issued a statement saying mechanical doping did take place and have advised bodies about discovery of motors/ batteries(re infra redetc)

 

[flecc]

C) If you watch above video bike is travelling above max cadence of aid with system ( 86 rpm)He went over 86 rpm, system worked , inspire of flec's claims.

You seem to be very confused, I've made no claim that it cannot be used above motor cadence. Like most e-bike motors it has a freewheel that allows the bike to run above motor speed with motor not engaged, so there's no point in your comment.

What I've posted is that when the drive is reversed when the rear wheel is turned backwards, there's the considerable drag of turning the motor via up gearing. That's it, so please don't try to pretend I've said differently.

I don't blame the authorities for using infra red detection, but in the current state of the art don't think it necessary. Detection is simple, quick and easy in all the ways I've described and as proven in the case in question.

You've just tripped across this story but it's old news. In 2010 winner Fabian Cancellara was similarly accused in the Tour de France, but that turned out to be nonsense. 2015 winner Chris Froome was also accused, but again it wasn't true. And now we have a story that's been cynically changed in order to show a guilt that may never have existed.

Following the drug scandals and Lance Armstrong exposure, Sky and the UCI are both hypersensitive about any possible cheating issue. The issue raised by this girl foolishly having a powered bike at an event is an obvious embarrassment, so it's no surprise that both will wish to kill the story. That's what they've done with a somewhat deceitful piece of journalism. Given how foolish she was, there is no way the girl in question could defend herself, leaving retirement as the only option.
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[trex]

correct me if I am wrong, the doped bike belongs to the team.
Surely the team must know who rode it where and when.
Femke Van den Driessche was not caught red-handed (with the doped bike underneath her), although there are rumours that she had used the doped bike in a previous competition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femke_Van_den_Driessche

 

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

No she didn't cheat the bike was in the van but unused. Sports journalists are doing what they do best, sensationalism. I have the feeling there are very few real journalists left. None with ethics that is for sure.

No the bike was at least in Parc Ferme ( pits not her van)and probably used. Seems many on here know more than UCI.

Simple fact is she is as guilty as sin but just like LA did , she cries innocent and appeals to the apologists amongst us and disappears for a while. She has broken no Laws ( the UCI once she has retired cant do a thing, they impose fees not fines, only legal authorities can fine)
She has retired under advice from her attorney....and leaves us all wondering.
Why cant folk just come out and say fair cop, I was cheating and this is what I did. UCI would be in a stronger position to defend against it, Early days of EPO ,everyone was saying it wasn't happening.( as riders queued up for blood transfusions in camper vans, literally)

 

[anotherkiwi]

No the bike was at least in Parc Ferme and probably used. Seems many on here know more than UCI.

We are only going by the original story and claims by the UCI early February (we are now mid March). Since then we have moved on because:

1. you can't cheat with a motor it is too easy to detect
2. the poor girl is surrounded by convicted criminals, so who did what, when and how to who is a rats nest that is only of interest to a tabloid reader

 

[flecc]

Seems many on here know more than UCI.

Obviously the UCI seem to know more, they have produced at least two different stories. I only have the original, which makes much more sense than their latest reported version.

Simple fact is she is as guilty as sin

You said yourself in the same post "probably rode", not fact, just suspicion, however strong you feel it.

The only important thing is that this bike present at the event was detected and any future one will certainly be now, so there is no problem as I've been posting. However, no doubt the conspiracy theorists will continue to say it still happens, ghosts and flying saucers do get boring after a while.
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[anotherkiwi]

Obviously the UCI seem to know more, they have produced at least two different stories. I only have the original, which makes much more sense than their latest reported version.

The UCI have to appear to be doing something because when it comes to drugs - used at ALL levels of competition - they are completely inefficient.

So here they are right on top of hidden motors - "Hey we got this one, you can't cheat with motors!". Well so they should be because it isn't happening on the same scale as doping and it is 100 power 5 easier to detect. Even without sophisticated equipment, a hand, a torch and a pair of eyes are tools enough. In case of doubt scales and a digital thermometer, no need for scanners or X-Rays or weegee boards.

This is a smoke screen: we are shxt useless at detecting drug use lets show we have this under control even though it is a non existant problem or so infinitely smaller than drug use that it isn't even a blip on the cheaters radar.

EDIT forgot IMVHO...

 

[flecc]

This is a smoke screen: we are shxt useless at detecting drug use lets show we have this under control even though it is a non existant problem or so infinitely smaller than drug use that it isn't even a blip on the cheaters radar.

Indeed. There's an equivalent in athletics and gymnastics where illegal drug use has been commonplace in many countries for decades. So to try to show they are clamping down, the world's favourite current scapegoat, Russia, is being banned from the olympics. No mention of all the other countries caught at it, just an attempt to focus blame on one "villain".
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