Mechanical doping ???

A new term has entered cycling, first time I,ve heard it anyway...

Apparently a Belgian rider ( Dreitsche) has been accused of " mechanical doping". She had a hidden motor on her bike !!! Presumably a battery as well. She hasn't denied charge ( joke there somewhere) and is not fighting against case. !!!

 

 

A pile of evidence no doubt.

Edited March 14, 201610 yr by (NoLongerRegistered#15675)

http://www.vivax-assist.com/en/unternehmen/

A new term has entered cycling, first time I,ve heard it anyway...

Apparently a Dutch rider ( Dreitsche) has been accused of " mechanical doping". She had a hidden motor on her bike !!! Presumably a battery as well. She hasn't denied charge ( joke there somewhere) and is not fighting against case. !!!

 

 

A pile of evidence no doubt.

Mechanical Doping.. An idiot on a bike?

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/news/electric-bike-seized-technological-fraud-cyclo-cross-race/

 

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/cheating-again.23228/#post-291741

 

http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/ever-been-told-youre-cheating.23241/

Old news......

Old news ?

She retired from cycling around 4pm today. ( Monday) and isn't defending charges...( literally I suppose)

She did have a powered bike at the venue but wasn't using it in the event. The fact that she had that bike there makes it impossible for her to defend herself, it was foolish of course.

 

However, I'm sure the accusation is nonsense and it's the second time it's been made against a rider. The facts are these:

 

These motors are noisy enough to instantly reveal themselves if used.

 

The battery in the seat tube is too tiny to make any real contribution to what a powerful rider can do, and the circa 100 watts of maximum power would be largely offset by the added weight.

 

They are too easy to detect, all one has to do is use the seat stem quick release to expose the frame's seat tube battery inside. In addition, the cut-off short saddle stem to make space for motor and battery immediately gives the game away.

 

Another way to detect is just to turn the rear wheel backwards, that immediately means turning the motor in reverse, which with this bevel drive system is very difficult due to the amount of drag, That drag immediately shows it's not a normal bike transmission, so scrutineering isn't a problem.

 

It was inevitable that the invention of such a motor system would inspire conspiracy theorists to grab what looked like an opportunity. If they had the faintest idea of the facts they might not come out with such nonsense.

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also if the batt cant do the hole race it makes you slower as carrying that extra weight to the end prob make you last anyway.

i think if one suspects that the bike is motorized then it should be easy to find the tell tale signs like drag, weight, noise and wires but it should be possible to hide the motor in the downtube and the battery in the chain stays and the on/off button somewhere on or inside the handlebars or use a car remote.

http://ebike-news.de/motor-betrug-bei-radrennen/117699/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A%20ebikenewsde%20%28ebike-news.de%29

it should be possible to hide the motor in the downtube and the battery in the chain stays and the on/off button somewhere on or inside the handlebars or use a car remote.

 

But the necessity for access to fit a motor in the downtube and to charge.replace a battery is also a giveaway if such a method is used. In addition chainstay batteries would be even more tiny and limiting. It simply isn't feasible to get any gain by such methods, and detection is always too easy by just turning the rear wheel backwards, encountering the considerable drag of the geared up motor through the right angle drive.

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Old news ?

She retired from cycling around 4pm today. ( Monday) and isn't defending charges...( literally I suppose)

 

Yup old news, this has been going on since early February.

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In addition chainstay batteries would be even more tiny and limiting. It simply isn't feasible to get any gain by such methods, and detection is always too easy by just turning the rear wheel backwards, encountering the considerable drag of the geared up motor through the right angle drive.

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As I am looking into building a lighter, stealthier 'Gtech', I am thinking of building the battery pack either into a lockable saddle or handlebars. Only 20 x 18650 cells are needed for 7AH. My guess for the Vivax, they'd use only 7 cells.

Edited March 15, 201610 yr by trex

 

10 x 3500 mAh + BMS in each bottle wired in parallel for 36 V 7 Ah? Room enough for a bottle battery controller in one of the bottles too I think.

 

Stealth and ease of access.

Yup old news, this has been going on since early February.

 

The fact she's quit is news, as it only became public knowledge yesterday.

 

Pity in the sense she's only 19 and had a promising career in cyclocross ahead of her.

 

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest-news/femke-van-den-driessche-will-not-defend-herself-in-motor-doping-case-216502

[ATTACH=full]13448[/ATTACH]

 

10 x 3500 mAh + BMS in each bottle wired in parallel for 36 V 7 Ah? Room enough for a bottle battery controller in one of the bottles too I think.

 

Stealth and ease of access.

 

You still have to get the crank motor in. If it's in the seat tube it's instantly detectable, and in the down tube it will need a huge access hole in the BB or headstock to insert it.

 

Then there's it's locking pin or bolt to stop motor rotation, the wiring from the bottles and for on/off.

 

And finally still that instantly detectable drag at the rear wheel in reverse, plus the noise. And these are why all this speculation is a waste of time, that drag and some noise is unavoidable. This cheat hasn't happened and won't either.

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the vivax demo bike has the motor in the seat tube and battery in a saddle bag, I suppose that's the easiest way to build the bike.

 

http://www.vivax-assist.com/global/img_1600x800/vivax-Alpha_2-0_Elektrorad_2014_RGB.jpg

You still have to get the crank motor in. If it's in the seat tube it's instantly detectable, and in the down tube it will need a huge access hole in the BB or headstock to insert it.

 

Then there's it's locking pin or bolt to stop motor rotation, the wiring from the bottles and for on/off.

 

And finally still that instantly detectable drag at the rear wheel in reverse, plus the noise. And these are why all this speculation is a waste of time, that drag and some noise is unavoidable. This cheat hasn't happened and won't either.

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The drag and noise will always be present, but I suppose you could press fit and/or glue the motor in the tube to avoid the need for a visible locking pin.

 

On/off could be achieved with remote car locking technology.

 

Stuffing the batteries in the tubes could hide them and the wiring, and a charging port could be hidden behind a bar end.

 

As I understand it, the weight can be sorted by using an illegally light bike which, with motor and battery added, makes the total weight about right.

Stuffing the batteries in the tubes could hide them and the wiring, and a charging port could be hidden behind a bar end.

 

This is already done with the battery and motor in the seat tube, but removing the cut short QD seat stem instantly exposes that. Having batteries in the cross bar means a hatch in the headstock to access them. Having them in the down tube means a headstock or BB hatch.

 

All of these are instantly detectable, and since instantly detectable drag is always present, no matter what motor position, it's just not worth trying. It would be like illegally doping and having the drugs label stuck on the crossbar.

 

Unfortunately, due to ignorance of the motor system implications, we're going to get the conspiracy theorists constantly raising this silly accusation now they mistakenly think it's possible. And of coiurse equally ignorant journalists will seize upon each event to publicise the rumour.

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Thinking away from e-bike technology....

In model car and aeroplanes they use really small but powerful electric motors, and with a system similar to starter motors where the gear is thrown into mesh when activated, a boost on hills without the constant drag could be possible...

She did have a powered bike at the venue but wasn't using it in the event. The fact that she had that bike there makes it impossible for her to defend herself, it was foolish of course.

 

However, I'm sure the accusation is nonsense and it's the second time it's been made against a rider. The facts are these:

 

These motors are noisy enough to instantly reveal themselves if used.

 

The battery in the seat tube is too tiny to make any real contribution to what a powerful rider can do, and the circa 100 watts of maximum power would be largely offset by the added weight.

 

They are too easy to detect, all one has to do is use the seat stem quick release to expose the frame's seat tube battery inside. In addition, the cut-off short saddle stem to make space for motor and battery immediately gives the game away.

 

Another way to detect is just to turn the rear wheel backwards, that immediately means turning the motor in reverse, which with this bevel drive system is very difficult due to the amount of drag, That drag immediately shows it's not a normal bike transmission, so scrutineering isn't a problem.

 

It was inevitable that the invention of such a motor system would inspire conspiracy theorists to grab what looked like an opportunity. If they had the faintest idea of the facts they might not come out with such nonsense.

.

.

So she,s retired for nothing ???

Motor could easily be straight cut pinion so would spin in reverse and 100w would easily off set its weight penalty, if it couldn't electric bikes would never work.( her average output without help is unlikely to be over 400 watts. ( if that) Just do power to weight ratios, its bound to be beneficial...if it works!!!( report I read suggested rear wheel had locked,scrutineer thought it strange, tried removing bottom bracket and couldn't)

But I do agree, any scrutineet should easily be able to tell ( surely there must be a weight penalty..this high tech carbon framed bike of yours weighs 16 kg???)

Read a report a couple of years ago about a rider who fell and back wheel carried on spinning !!

My background was motorsport and many felt in that what the scrutineer couldn't find was ok..generally mid runners could get away with loads ( from nitrous hidden away in fire extinguishers ,to engines stamped as 1300,s when actually they were really 1600..just means now folk spend more time in scrutineering tent than driving..

Perhaps a Pedelec race series should be started !

Max weight of bike 20kg and a regulation 400w/h battery..1 hr race ???

So she,s retired for nothing ???

Motor could easily be straight cut pinion so would spin in reverse

 

|s I've already posted, she was silly enough to also have that powered bike present at the meeting, making any defence suspect enough to prompt her to do the obvious.

 

And no, a bevel drive wouldn't spin freely in reverse, due to the reduction ratio reversed to create the unavoidable drag, plus the notching of the motor magnets.

 

And as I'm having to post repeatedly, now the accusations exist, there's no longer any point trying with such easy instant detectability. There's never been an easier and quicker scrutineering job.

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Perhaps a Pedelec race series should be started !

Max weight of bike 20kg and a regulation 400w/h battery..1 hr race ???

 

We had a pedelec race series at Presteigne for three years, but that hasn't run for a while now. Using essentially illegal e-bikes there was little point.

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Think you are being a touch naive here flec.

Having srutineered at motor events you,d be amazed at both folks ingenuity and gall to cheat.

The technology is easily available with many solutions for either freewheeling when not in use ,to bike overspinning motor .

Secondly explain why she has retired ??? According to you nothing has happened, yet it was widely reported yesterday she has done so ? (at 19) ???

 

And BTW don't feel pressure to repeatedly post, we are all perfectly happy in blissful ignorance.

 

For the lady in question a 100w addition of power with I,ve guessed an 8kg ( could be lots lighter) would see her power to weight ratio increase by 0.9 watts/ kg..There would be almost zero drag penalty.( would be pretty stupid having wires dangling around or batteries taped to cross bars)

Edited March 15, 201610 yr by (NoLongerRegistered#15675)

I really like conspiracy theories, as long as not taken too seriously they can provide an entertaining banter..

In this case anything is possible.. for example..

I have a watch that looks just like any other watch but it is driven by light so never needs a battery replacement or recharge. In fact I have two of these (each slightly different) one is 7 years old and the other is 5 years old, neither has ever been adjusted and both show the correct time.

I have a phone that charges wirelessly..

You can get insoles that generate a charge whist you are walking.

There are fabrics that can generate solar power.

So, with a photovoltaic suit and helmet, a light sensitive painted frame and shoes pumping out watts while you pedal, all wirelessly connected to a lightweight plastic motor.... who need batteries?

p.s. Is Elvis really dead?