Mechanical doping ???

Mar 9, 2016
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Indeed. There's an equivalent in athletics and gymnastics where illegal drug use has been commonplace in many countries for decades. So to try to show they are clamping down, the world's favourite current scapegoat, Russia, is being banned from the olympics. No mention of all the other countries caught at it, just an attempt to focus blame on one "villain".
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Totally agree with that. Suspect cheats are endemic in probably all sports. The farce in football typifies it. Seb Coe in athletics, getting venue to town his major sponsor just happens to have headquarters in..goes on and on..but that still does not mean this " villain" ( I don't see her as a villain, but that's a whole diff story) is innocent.
Anybody who gets to level she has,with or without cheating, knows how to work and fight. Her life upto now will have been dedicated to keeping fit, training, eating right and giving up things we see as normal.( and charging the occasional battery)
Then up comes this, she claims innocence but rolls over and retires. She knows exactly what she,s done and knows only way to avoid fall out is to pack in.
She,s as guilty as Sharapova , Seth Blatter, Armstrong and many more as yet undetected cheats.

One thing I find highly suspicious..UCI announce they have found an example of mechanical doping on the very day of the girls event, giving all the elite athletes due to compete the following day a prior warning ????
mmmm..
 
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flecc

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She,s as guilty as Sharapova , Seth Blatter, Armstrong and many more as yet undetected cheats.
I wonder when all this reaches the school sports field? :rolleyes:

After all, the little tykes apparently use cannabis from the age of 8 in some instances, know their way round the internet and how to abuse parent's credit cards.
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Mar 9, 2016
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I wonder when all this reaches the school sports field? :rolleyes:

After all, the little tykes apparently use cannabis from the age of 8 in some instances, know their way round the internet and how to abuse parent's credit cards.
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What School sports ground ? All sold for housing years ago..
 

trex

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Then up comes this, she claims innocence but rolls over and retires.
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It's not as if she has a chance to avoid ban and fine. If she had gone to UCI today to defend her case, the best she could hope for would be a smallish fine (about £50,000) and a short ban (a year) and moderate charge from her lawyer. Her sponsors have already run away, she and her family aren't exactly rich, what choice does she have compared to not paying fines? Retiring is her least cost option.
 
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Mar 9, 2016
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It's not as if she has a chance to avoid ban and fine. If she had gone to UCI today to defend her case, the best she could hope for would be a smallish fine (about £50,000) and a short ban (a year) and moderate charge from her lawyer. Her sponsors have already run away, she and her family aren't exactly rich, what choice does she have compared to not paying fines? Retiring is her least cost option.
In theory they only ban and fine guilty parties ??? Are we also saying UCI couldn't come to right conclusion when they have all the facts..
The whole case is rather different to "drug" cheats. In that much of their cheating involves illegal procedures/substances. ( blood transfusions in vans is at best shady if not down right illegal. HGH / EPO/Testosterone/ are not only banned they are also illegal.)
Drug cheats could also face prosecution, I very much doubt mechanical cheats do.( unless she used it in road with a dongle upgrade)
 

flecc

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What School sports ground ? All sold for housing years ago..
Yes, I've seen various reports of this happening. Not so in my part of a London Borough though, all the schools retain large and sometimes very large sports fields.

The 200 pupil primary school near me has three playgrounds, a garden one for the infants, a hedged secluded one for those wanting to be quieter and a large traditionally noisy one. Above those is a large playing field, and just beyond that is the school's fenced 6 acre regularly used woodland nature reserve which the kids love. And just beyond those is the housing estate's council playground for when they are out of school.

Spoilt? You bet!
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Mar 9, 2016
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I know, I was being ironic. Our local school has great facilities, our hospital is brilliant and roads fairly ok..
Just as ab OT asside...recent study showed EPO gave no performance increase and merely put users at higher risk of heart attack !! So perhaps LA was not so guilty ????
 
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flecc

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Just as ab OT asside...recent study showed EPO gave no performance increase and merely put users at higher risk of heart attack !! So perhaps LA was not so guilty ????
Still as guilty of trying of course, but perhaps the wins valid after all. There's little doubt he was an immensely capable rider, regardless of possible doping advantage.

But as capable as high level sports persons are, they too often seem seriously lacking in judgment, true of L.A., the rider in question in this thread and the footballer in the current sex offence case. In short, chumps.

Calls into question the maxim, healthy body, healthy mind.
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trex

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In theory they only ban and fine guilty parties ??? Are we also saying UCI couldn't come to right conclusion when they have all the facts..
If the doped bike is found within the perimeter of her area, she, being the guarantor of anything in her area, is liable to ban and fine. Fine applies also to her team. Like Sharapova, I don't think she ever disputed the facts. Ban and fine are inevitable if she chooses to remain a member of UCI and her team may even be put out of business too.
 
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s60sc

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Italian newspaper Gazzetta dello Sport has described a motor hidden in the seat tube and bottom bracket as ‘old doping’ suggesting that special wheels, able to produce 20-60 watts via electromagnetics and costing 200,000 Euro, are the most sophisticated form of mechanical doping currently in use in cycling.
 

anotherkiwi

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200,000 € ! I think club racing will be safe for a short while then. They will be sticking to forbidden substances...
 

RobF

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Yes, I've seen various reports of this happening. Not so in my part of a London Borough though, all the schools retain large and sometimes very large sports fields.

The 200 pupil primary school near me has three playgrounds, a garden one for the infants, a hedged secluded one for those wanting to be quieter and a large traditionally noisy one. Above those is a large playing field, and just beyond that is the school's fenced 6 acre regularly used woodland nature reserve which the kids love. And just beyond those is the housing estate's council playground for when they are out of school.

Spoilt? You bet!
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There is - or was - a school just off Upper Street in islington N1 which had a playground on its roof.
 
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Siemens have recently announced an electric motor with a power density of 5kw per kg..that's at least 10 times density of motors currently used in ebikes. ( as far as we know)
Putting that in perspective a 250 w motor of same construction would be under 100g...
Micro motors and nano motors can exceed even this amazing power density.
For quite a while Rotrex have been developing and already using traction drive units which are almost silent , have 97% efficiency and with gear ratios available to step up ICE rpm ( around 10,000 rpm ) upto circa 250 000 . ( its used in their superchargers )
The technology is already here to make powered ebikes almost undetectable. ( The weakest link is still battery, but as we all know they have made massive strides recently)

UCI have not forked out on infra red heat sensors for nothing...

If folk are willing to store up blood to enable blood transfusions during tours ,using cutting edge technology to cheat wouldn't be given a second thought.
 

trex

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Putting that in perspective a 250 w motor of same construction would be under 100g....
you can do that easily enough but a gearbox with a reduction ratio 250,000/100 for e-bikes is a bit more difficult to make.
 
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flecc

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Siemens have recently announced an electric motor with a power density of 5kw per kg..that's at least 10 times density of motors currently used in ebikes. ( as far as we know)
Putting that in perspective a 250 w motor of same construction would be under 100g...
Micro motors and nano motors can exceed even this amazing power density.
For quite a while Rotrex have been developing and already using traction drive units which are almost silent , have 97% efficiency and with gear ratios available to step up ICE rpm ( around 10,000 rpm ) upto circa 250 000 . ( its used in their superchargers )
The technology is already here to make powered ebikes almost undetectable.
This is pure fantasy stuff, theory which simply isn't practically realisable for e-bikes. I could quote endlessly such announcements which never reach fruition. Tell me when some product arrives.

( The weakest link is still battery, but as we all know they have made massive strides recently)
We know nothing of the sort, the advances in lithium batteries have been slow over the last two decades. Small reductions in weight but size is still a problem. The main gains have been in safety rather than in performance for long life cells, for example today's compound cathodes far safer than the equal performing cobalt cathodes of yesteryear. But even for that gain we went backwards for a while in the mid 2000s with manganese cathodes failing to deliver adequate current rates and cells failing at as little as three months.

And other technologies only produce excited announcements rather than actual product. As I so often remark, the most common high discharge application in the world, starting vehicles, is still being done with the oldest technology, dating back centuries rather than decades. So much for progress.
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soundwave

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Mar 9, 2016
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This is pure fantasy stuff, theory which simply isn't practically realisable for e-bikes. I could quote endlessly such announcements which never reach fruition. Tell me when some product arrives.



We know nothing of the sort, the advances in lithium batteries have been slow over the last two decades. Small reductions in weight but size is still a problem. The main gains have been in safety rather than in performance for long life cells, for example today's compound cathodes far safer than the equal performing cobalt cathodes of yesteryear. But even for that gain we went backwards for a while in the mid 2000s with manganese cathodes failing to deliver adequate current rates and cells failing at as little as three months.

And other technologies only produce excited announcements rather than actual product. As I so often remark, the most common high discharge application in the world, starting vehicles, is still being done with the oldest technology, dating back centuries rather than decades. So much for progress.
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Even if mentioned technologies were not being used your point is irrelevant. I was merely pointing out the technology to greatly reduce size and weight of motors and small drive trains with massive reductions already exists.
EPO / Blood transfusions,/ Human growth hormone etc etc are not common in normal life, it didn't prevent Tyler Hamilton with help of Spanish doctors make full use if them..
There are even lighter batteries coming into use including lithium air , lithium polymer is already with us and no doubt others will be coming along. However I doubt we will ever see any if these used to start our cars, or motors such as Siemens have developed in them euther . We will see them in places requiring their use and justifying their cost.
Because you can't imagine their use hardly means they will not be used.
The traction drive mentioned is already used, extensively in high end motor industry.( Look at the story about Rotrex superchargers)
Siemens motor is already in prototype aircraft.
Like I said the technology is already here to miniaturize ebike components way below their current size..I suspect its already going on. You don't think so. No amount of posts will change either opinion.
Had someone explained in a bar over a pint all I read in Tyler Hamilton,s book about his relationship with LA , his time in Girona and the depth of their cheating I would have said it was nonesense. We all now know it wasn't.
Mechanical cheating is going on. This recent incident proves it.
 

soundwave

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it will come down to cost and atm a bike like those will be many thousands to make thus why pay that much to cheat anyway???

ill stick to my performance drugs 1l of vodka and 10 bongs, should get a medal just for finishing that and the race ;)
 

flecc

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Even if mentioned technologies were not being used your point is irrelevant. I was merely pointing out the technology to greatly reduce size and weight of motors and small drive trains with massive reductions already exists.
In your optimism it potentially exists for us, it doesn't factually exist.

That's the difference between us, you take laboratory experimental results as fact while I only recognise technology that's proven in practical applications.

The sort of announcements you quote are ten a penny, and I've long since lost count of them. At times they've appeared weekly, but over the years I've observed them in their thousands, hardly any ever come to fruition. Some of the things you mention were doable many years ago, yet still we haven't got them. The reason is quite simple, all too often the gain is offset by one or more disadvantages and I can quote many examples of that.

When something exists in a practical form that I can buy, let me know. Until then it's just theoretically available and you waste your time trying to convince me of any practical viability without proof.
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