Looking for a decent ebike to buy, on a bit of a 'budget'

[Mr. B Ikeman]

FIrst off, I'll state that the highest I'll go is £1700, maybe £2k if it was an absolute bargain bike down from more than double that.
Though I'd rather stay under 1.5k

Reason I'm looking for an ebike is because I need to build up strength in my legs, I live in a fairly hilly area >20 degree inclines and want to get out to some good cycling spots. Having an electric assist would make it less torturous getting around.

I've been looking at the cyclotricity kits (full frame, 70%) and have been asking about one specific model, their high end full suspension 1500W model (high wattage for off road use), however when I asked for info on assembly (ie do I need to size the chain, will I need to use a chain splitter, does it come with a pre-sized chain and quick link) they just directed me to their PDF, which doesn't cover that. I'd also asked in the same email for a set of specs on the forks, brakes and rear shocks, derailleur and shifters as their site just lists "Air shocks" "Hydraulic brakes" which isn't exactly a heap of information, they never provided that info which makes me feel they're being a bit cagey. Am I wrong?

Cyclotricity seem to be the best I've found since they check two of the main boxes I need them to; throttle and high wattage motors, for use on offroad/private land then the option to set a road legal 250W lockout.

Hub drive seems to be my only option, from my limited knowledge, for an ebike that can do throttle + PAS, even retrofitting a throttle to a mid drive sounds like it may be impossible on higher end motors as the ESC is built into the motor itself, so can't really be changed out to accept a throttle as well as PAS.

If you could give me a list of options I'd have in my budget range that fit the criteria of:
Has throttle + PAS
Can climb inclines of 20-25 degrees
Is a good bike overall, or not absolutely awful

I'd appreciate it. I've been out of cycling for about 8 years now and this is my first foray into ebikes.

Thanks

 

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[saneagle]

Thanks for all of the responses so far.
I've found used converted bike online, looks to be in good condition from the pics. Price isn't too bad either at £550 for the bike, meaning I'd have money to spend on a new battery, controller, spares and so on.
Has an AKM350 kit on it, 36V, 350W geared hub motor.

Would this be suitable for my needs; as I've said, I just want more range than a traditional bicycle can afford me and at least some assurance that if I overdo it, I can get back to my place.


I'd quote the entire post, though I'm trying to keep the thread easy to follow. It gives a lot of excellent advice. One thing I will say however, is that in my experience, some drivers just seem to not care regardless. Long before ebikes were a thing I nearly got killed, twice, by two different drivers in the same spot because they didn't think that someone could cycle at 30+mph, it was a 40 zone and I'd regularly overtake (not undertake) cars in the inside lane. However cars would usually chance it and try and pull out in front of me. First time it happened it was dry and the brakes stopped me, second time it was raining and the bike slid out from under me, luckily I didn't have traffic behind me to run me over. Driver who tried to pull out just drove off like nothing happened.
Was wearing hi-vis and using lights, it wasn't a blind junction either, both drivers definitely saw me and decided to chance it.

48v is always better if you're heavy and/or unfit. Quite often, the 350w motors are wound for a higher speed than the 250w ones, so the hill-climbing isn't as good.

Don't think that the watts mentioned has anything to do with actual power or climbing ability. The motor is just a transducer. How much power you get depends on the controller and battery. It makes no difference whether the motor has 250w, 350w, 500 or 1000w written on it. For hill-climbing, you need a motor with good efficiency at its climbing speed and a controller that gives the power to provide the torque you need.

 

[Mr. B Ikeman]

48v is always better if you're heavy and/or unfit. Quite often, the 350w motors are wound for a higher speed than the 250w ones, so the hill-climbing isn't as good.

Don't think that the watts mentioned has anything to do with actual power or climbing ability. The motor is just a transducer. How much power you get depends on the controller and battery. It makes no difference whether the motor has 250w, 350w, 500 or 1000w written on it. For hill-climbing, you need a motor with good efficiency at its climbing speed and a controller that gives the power to provide the torque you need.

Thanks for your input.

I'm a little confused however, you're right that the motor rating doesn't matter if the controller isn't able to supply the rated wattage (I assume this is what you mean) and therefore it may be wise to increase the current to the motor.
I'd be hesitant to increase both the voltage and current (though again this depends on the controller and the voltage*current making it to the motor) but, from what I've read, wouldn't starting with a geared hub motor like this (so a gear reduction rather than direct drive) be better than going for a standard hub motor that is direct drive.

I'm going off what other people have said which is, paraphrasing, if I've got it wrong, let me know "Get a 36V kit, a 48V battery and a controller able to handle more current to allow the motor to achieve more than it's continuous wattage rating" also "A geared hub motor at a lower wattage may be better, if you're not looking for a bike that achieves extremely high speeds without pedalling"

So would a 350W geared hub motor, with a 36V battery pack (and mystery ESC) alongside a decent bike frame be a bad first purchase, given the listed price of £550? Used, but looking at the pics, in reasonable shape.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

Thanks for your input.

I'm a little confused however, you're right that the motor rating doesn't matter if the controller isn't able to supply the rated wattage (I assume this is what you mean) and therefore it may be wise to increase the current to the motor.
I'd be hesitant to increase both the voltage and current (though again this depends on the controller and the voltage*current making it to the motor) but, from what I've read, wouldn't starting with a geared hub motor like this (so a gear reduction rather than direct drive) be better than going for a standard hub motor that is direct drive.

I'm going off what other people have said which is, paraphrasing, if I've got it wrong, let me know "Get a 36V kit, a 48V battery and a controller able to handle more current to allow the motor to achieve more than it's continuous wattage rating" also "A geared hub motor at a lower wattage may be better, if you're not looking for a bike that achieves extremely high speeds without pedalling"

So would a 350W geared hub motor, with a 36V battery pack (and mystery ESC) alongside a decent bike frame be a bad first purchase, given the listed price of £550? Used, but looking at the pics, in reasonable shape.

Short answer, I think it will be fine.

Slightly longer answer, the Yosepower kits used AKM geared hub motors, the "350 w" motor has a higher top rpm (and hence worse hill climbing ability) than the "250 w" motor. The manufacturer just used 250w and 350w as a proxy for the top speed, in reality there was no difference in the power you could supply to them.

The stamped wattage on motors has very little relationship to anything, regulations have created an incentive to certify them as 250w and a lot of Chinese manufacturers have used the wattage to signify the top speed

If you bought it and felt it needed more power going up hills you could possibly change the controller to a KT one with a max current of 18 amps. (KT controller + display £80ish) and / or change the battery to 48v (batteries are relatively cheap at the minute £200 ish)

The thing to be careful with second hand e-bikes is the battery, I have had one with a knackered battery and had to replace it, so factor that into the price

So post some pictures on here and someone here will check it is generic technology and that the motor can cope with 48v

Negotiate a price and buy it. Alternatively £550 or slightly more would be enough for you to buy a good condition, highly specced second hand donor bike and convert it to your exact preferred specification

If you want more power upgrade to a dual 36/48 v controller with max current 18 amps

If you still want more power (or the battery is knackered) upgrade to 48v battery

(My prediction is you will be amazed how good it is without any modifications and it will suit your needs)

 

[Nealh]

If one want's hill climbing ability with a hub motor one would be better off with a 48v motor rated for the correct RPM winding rather then overvolting a 36v motor of the same rpm. For flat terrian it doesn't matter.

 

[Peter.Bridge]

If one want's hill climbing ability with a hub motor one would be better off with a 48v motor rated for the correct RPM winding rather then overvolting a 36v motor of the same rpm. For flat terrian it doesn't matter.

Can probably get cheaper from Chinese sellers but if you want to buy all from one place with the Woosh support

Woosh Bikes - Online Shop

Online shopping for electric bikes and conversion kits. All models are in stock unless otherwise indicated on the web page and can be despatched on the same day or next business day. We will email you the tracking link as soon as the item has been despatched.

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