Legal EBIKE LOOPHOLES

[Az.]

1.2 Cycles where power can be obtained even when the rider is not pedalling (twist and go)
Under European law these cycles are categorised as “L1e-A” and are required to obtain EU or domestic type approval. They are not required to be registered. There is however an exemption for cycles where power is available only up to 6 kilometres per hour without pedalling, to help start-up, and these are exempt from type approval.

Guidance on European type approval for certain electrically assisted pedal cycles (EAPC)

www.gov.uk

 

[Cadence]

I would dearly like to know the answer to the above as well.
Also, I've been studying KT controller settings in advance of buying one. There are various settings under C4 Throttle Function Parameters.
Under P4=1 Non-zero startup, Value 3 is "Before power-assist, the throttle speed limit is 6km/h, after power assist throttle is full speed. Stop power-assist, return throttle speed to 6km/h."
I interpret this as a 6km/h throttle without pedalling and once above 6km/h the throttle will operate up to the set speed (say 24.5km/h) limit while pedaling. Stop pedalling and let go of the throttle and it will only operate up to 6km/h without pedalling again.
If I'm right this seems to me to the cover the legal requirements. Importantly, if plod tests by lifting the wheel and operating the throttle it will only run up to 6km/h.
I hope I'm right as this is one of the major attractions for me of switching from a Yose to KT controller.

 

[Az.]

I would dearly like to know the answer to the above as well.

Did you see my post above?

 

[Cadence]

Did you see my post above?

I have now -was busy typing and editing when you posted.

 

[Nealh]

A EAPC can't be illegal if the thumb push/ start control can't propel the bike from a standing start , the law states it must be propelled by pedalling.
Nearly all EAPC's have 6kmh walk assist that doesn't require pedalling.

The law states that a EAPC must be propelled by pedalling .

 

[guerney]

A question for the KT crowd: What is the no-load wheel off the ground speed of the legal KT 6kph throttle?

 

[Peter.Bridge]

A question for the KT crowd: What is the no-load wheel off the ground speed of the legal KT 6kph throttle?

6km/h

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Wow !
sorry if I have not read all of this yet I was working today .

I thought of this too when holding a bike back wheel off the ground it’s going to go faster on the clock without weight on it .

I think to be on the safe side and protect my professional driving licence I will just unplug or remove the thumb throttle for the time being.

That said I think I am going to get a big fat tyre bike with Two hub motors and make it into a road legal mop head with pedals left in tact I remember from the 70s there was a market for this type of bike and I think they will come back in a EV form because of demand for them v cost .

so like a lot of new things a bit Wild West they will be regulated then all the big companies will move in and dominate the market as usual.

Does any one know how lime bikes can have dual motors assuming that they are both 250 w minimum fitted on both wheels ? Combined 500 w

 

[AndyBike]

Again on the News BBC this morning a member of Motor Cycle Federation stating any pedelec with a throttle is illegal.

Well its not illegal really, what it is is effectively is a moped, and as a moped it needs to follow the laws set down for mopeds
Lids, insurance, turn signals(possibly ?) etc
But it is not a bicycle, or even an electric bicycle, it makes it an electric motorbike(or moped)

 

[flecc]

Does any one know how lime bikes can have dual motors assuming that they are both 250 w minimum fitted on both wheels ? Combined 500 w

Like all EAPCs they total 250 watts Maximum Continuous Rated Power, NOT 250 watts actual maximum power.
.

 

[Az.]

Well its not illegal really, what it is is effectively is a moped, and as a moped it needs to follow the laws set down for mopeds
Lids, insurance, turn signals(possibly ?) etc
But it is not a bicycle, or even an electric bicycle, it makes it an electric motorbike(or moped)

No Andy. You can have legal EAPC with a throttle. Insurance, helmets are not required by law (but recommended).

I am not sure why @flecc agreed with your comment. Perhaps he would like to elaborate.

 

[soundwave]

any ebike that has a speed limit that is 15.5mph and can not be changed via the controller can output way more than 250w under the 15mph limit.

my bosch motor can pump out neear 900w under the speed limit and with that limit removed i can hit near 40mph on the flat at 120rpm

 

[Az.]

That said I think I am going to get a big fat tyre bike with Two hub motors and make it into a road legal mop head with pedals left in tact I remember from the 70s there was a market for this type of bike and I think they will come back in a EV form because of demand for them v cost .

so like a lot of new things a bit Wild West they will be regulated then all the big companies will move in and dominate the market as usual.

Does any one know how lime bikes can have dual motors assuming that they are both 250 w minimum fitted on both wheels ? Combined 500 w

There is demand for this stuff already. Many fat bikes cruising around. I guess people who are keen to buy 4x4 or SUV are main potential buyers. I mean those who don't have budget for 4x4 or SUV just yet...

Completely not my cup of tea.

 

[AndyBike]

No Andy. You can have legal EAPC with a throttle. Insurance, helmets are not required by law (but recommended).

I am not sure why @flecc agreed with your comment. Perhaps he would like to elaborate.

Im meaning at 15.5mph. I see from google they list throttle ebikes as having a max of 3.7mph
So has there been some sort of change tot he ruling and you can legally have a throttle controlled ebike that can go at 15.5mph, or thereabouts.

 

[Az.]

So has there been some sort of change tot he ruling and you can legally have a throttle controlled ebike

No, there was no recent change. At least not to my knowledge.

...but you might like to read this thread from the beginning or at least from this post:

Legal EBIKE LOOPHOLES

I dislike Mr F and would never vote for him, but i never heard hate cr@p from him. He provides a perspective that chimes with about a third of the population's view.

www.pedelecs.co.uk

 

[soundwave]

Pardon our interruption...

i thought my tyres was expensive and i bet there like tissue paper

 

[saneagle]

Does any one know how lime bikes can have dual motors assuming that they are both 250 w minimum fitted on both wheels ? Combined 500 w

If you have two motors the same, then they have to be no more than 125w each. 125w motors are not easy to find.

 

[soundwave]

 

[thelarkbox]

Wow !
sorry if I have not read all of this yet I was working today .

I thought of this too when holding a bike back wheel off the ground it’s going to go faster on the clock without weight on it .

I think to be on the safe side and protect my professional driving licence I will just unplug or remove the thumb throttle for the time being.

That said I think I am going to get a big fat tyre bike with Two hub motors and make it into a road legal mop head with pedals left in tact I remember from the 70s there was a market for this type of bike and I think they will come back in a EV form because of demand for them v cost .

so like a lot of new things a bit Wild West they will be regulated then all the big companies will move in and dominate the market as usual.

Does any one know how lime bikes can have dual motors assuming that they are both 250 w minimum fitted on both wheels ? Combined 500 w

I cant say for sure about lime bikes but since they are hire bikes from the same source as the hire-scooters which afaik are mostly 500w+ perhaps they fall under the same 'system trial loophole' as the scooters??
If indeed they have 2x 250w rated motors, though if the order is of a sufficient size im sure they could get any ratting they wanted stamped on the motors.

Hope you share your plans and the build of the moped, some of the machines that have been displayed in here are inspiring to say the least..

 

[piratepete]

There is no such thing as a throttle on an ebike.

To be fair modern motorcycles and less than modern cars often use ride/drive by wire for their throttles. Simple electronic position sensors that give information to the ECU to decide what to do.