Sturgeon: Independence poll 'highly likely' if UK leaves EU
the Pound (1.45USD) is also at its highest since January.
All down to Barak Obama.
the Pound (1.45USD) is also at its highest since January.
All down to Barak Obama.
Leaving the EU
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
"I very much value British culture and identity - but to me its about liberal values, openness, tolerance and freedom, what's at the heart of Shakespeare or Donne etc. there's very few people I can imagine having less in common with than Nigel Farage and culturally living in the kind of Donald trumpdom he envisages would be more alien to me than relocating to Fiji."
(Borrowed from a previous post)
I think the arguments for and against leaving are clouded. Verifiable facts are quite scarce. They are mostly delivered by politicians who, sadly, have a delicate connection with truth. I don't see much wrong with the ECHR, saving it limits some excesses of 'free behaviour' some of the above mentioned politicians feel hampered by. Zero hour contracts are, perhaps, just a step away from slavery? Re-badging 'minimum wage' as 'living wage' shows what we're dealing with. Slavery must make economic sense to some capitalists. Would you buy a second-hand eBike from one of these people?
So, how will I vote?
'Always keep a hold of nurse
For fear of finding something worse ...'
(Borrowed from a previous post)
I think the arguments for and against leaving are clouded. Verifiable facts are quite scarce. They are mostly delivered by politicians who, sadly, have a delicate connection with truth. I don't see much wrong with the ECHR, saving it limits some excesses of 'free behaviour' some of the above mentioned politicians feel hampered by. Zero hour contracts are, perhaps, just a step away from slavery? Re-badging 'minimum wage' as 'living wage' shows what we're dealing with. Slavery must make economic sense to some capitalists. Would you buy a second-hand eBike from one of these people?
So, how will I vote?
'Always keep a hold of nurse
For fear of finding something worse ...'
I don't think that the availability of verifiable facts is the problem, if anything, we have too much facts. It's their extrapolation by politicians the problem. I don't mind a little bit of convenient 'remodelling' but listening to George and Boris, the two possible PMs after Brexit, their constant exageration causes me to despair of the future.
My favourite candidate for the next PM is now May.
Pretty much the same as my experience, I remember Empire Day too, and getting a ticking off by the Teacher for failing to understand that the natives should feel honoured to be part of the "White man's burden" when I asked if they minded us being there.
He was not impressed when I asked if we had such a wonderful Empire, why were we dressed in hand me downs and patched clothes, and underfed?
It was because it cost a lot of money to run the Empire for the benefit of ungrateful foreigners.
Was the explanation....
Sounds a bit like complaints about the modern welfare bill, doesn't it?
As for Bananas, there was a special shipment around Xmas one year and pretty much every kid got one, I remember the first bite being disappointing until Father explained you had to remove the skin first...
Interesting the Police have been raiding Hand car washes in several cities as there have been complaints of immigrants being used as slave labour!
I wouldn't mind Corbyn having a crack at it. A quiet man, who knows? He could turn out to be like that very great quiet man, Clement Attlee.
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I'm with you and him on that! although I would have preferred if someone liked Aneurin Bevan was around!
You may well be right about the facts. My problem is sorting the chaff from the rest of the chaff. Perhaps we should select the next PM by lottery? My main worry is immigration? My family were immigrants and I don't think we've done much damage to our adopted country. My worry is that it may be disastrous to limit it. The suggestion that we admit, over a 20 year period, 3000 children? Why not leave the doors to Britain open? For heaven's sake these people want to come here. They want to work, they have skills and intelligence and determination. I cannot begin to understand the courage it must take to walk out of your front door, holding the hands of your wife/partner and children, taking only what you can carry on your back and walk into a future, in the belief that somehow you will find a better future. And to have that hope and courage and love die in the mud of the Calais Jungle, condemned by fat faced politicians of all creeds. I have worked in a third world country, governed by a dictator. I knew young men who have made such a journey and who have died in the waters of the Mediterranean Sea.
I usually go opposite of the politicians I dislike but so far, I need a third way.
Can anyone offer another choice?
Can anyone offer another choice?
I think the immigration card is being shown more by the In crowd, trying to make the outs seem like racists, when it apears that all they want is to control immigration, not stop it dead.
Does big business want to remain because leaving may herald an end to exploitable, profit boostable cheap labour?
Does big business want to remain because leaving may herald an end to exploitable, profit boostable cheap labour?
the migrant issue is very muddied. If you look at the right of abode afforded to all commonweath citizens, it was stopped in 1982 and could not stop their continued immigration. Despite being outside the EU, Switzerland have a lot more EU immigrants as a proportion than we do. Immigration has more to do with wages than anything else.
No.
If that was their objective, they'd take the very profitable option of shifting the employment to Eastern Europe where wages are often even lower than our minimums.
This even applies to farming, where a number of English arable farmers have shifted to such as Romania and Bulgaria where land is dirt cheap and labour costs minimal.
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When I was working, I was told by a manager that he had visited a new factory where they will only employ east europeans. He said they will work for minimum wage without wanting pay rises, if a machine breaks down they will go home and come back when its fixed even if its midnight, they are not bothered with the working time directive so will happily work 15 hours day or night without overtime premium or shift premium, and ended with you lot wouldn't do any of that!!
Those arguments are simplistic though. Of course the EU will trade with anyone if the price is right or the import is not readily available from elsewhere.
The UK doesn't have much to offer that fits either of these criteria.
The EU can manage very nicely without its tiny percentage of imports from us. We'd find it very difficult to replace our near 50% of exports to the EU with exports to other parts of the world. So in any negotiations with the EU we start at a disadvantage.
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I voted in the referendum in the late 70's
The population voted for the common market!
Not The Union States of Europe
Not the Lisbon Treaty
We traded stronger before joining the common market and we can be strong again once more, the population are and will be strong again.
America is running scared! They invested Billions of money after 1945 into Germany to re build the infrastructure.
Threats and intimidation by both governments is turning people towards Brexit.
I'm British not European and will vote out to save our sovereignty
I abstained the first time and look where that got us.
Flecc said to emigrate, I feel at my age who would want me, there's not a lot of work in me these days.
I think the ostriches have the right idea.