Leaving the EU

[Kudoscycles]

If we left the EU could we cancel the anti dumping duty( 60 % on non assisted bikes) that we buy from China? That would give us a massive advantage over the rest of the EU when buying bikes from China,I could see cyclists tripping across the channel to buy their bikes.
Thinking further we could cancel all these EU anti dumping duties,that didn't suit us,most of them were introduced to protect German industry.
But would Osborne want to cancel them?
KudosDave

 

[trex]

no, he wouldn't. Anti-dumping duty is there to protect jobs.
Article 50's two year period is too short for negociating new trade deals, only enough time to disantangle the CAP, fisheries, choose between EEA and organising a second referendum to get back in.
I think most people who want out do so because they don't want the enlarged membership. When we joined in 1973, it was called then the European Community which only had 6 members plus us, all matured western democracies with few problems. The EU with 28 members is now seen by some as rather downmarket and beset with all sorts of problems.

 

[flecc]

I think most people who want out is because they don't want the enlarged membership. When we joined in 1973, then it was the European Community which only had 6 members plus us, all matured western democracies with few problems. The EU with 28 members is now seen by some as rather downmarket and beset with all sorts of problems.

I agree, the original European Community made far more sense and I've been opposed to some of the further expansion. John Major's backing for inclusion of the Eastern Bloc countries I felt was particularly misguided and it's led to the current troubles with Russia over NATO surrounding it's border.

I think a far better future for Europe would have been the Warsaw Pact countries joining into their own economic community, and the Scandinavian Bloc into their own economic community. These would have formed buffers between Russia and the earlier EU NATO member countries, putting Russia far more at ease politically.

There could have been harmonious trade agreements between the three and the two northern Blocs could have had their own internal defence agreements without involving NATO and the USA.
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[Lancslass]

I think most people who want out do so because they don't want the enlarged membership. When we joined in 1973, it was called then the European Community which only had 6 members plus us, all matured western democracies with few problems. The EU with 28 members is now seen by some as rather downmarket and beset with all sorts of problems.

Exactly, hence the stats above that confirm that older folk who have been in from the start, and know what it CAN be like, want out (I'm one in that category)

 

[gray198]

Looks like Project Fear has started in earnest from the remain side.They seem to be the ones with all the negativity. It really is depressing how little confidence our so called leaders have in the British people and also in their capabilities of running a successful country without having the EU to fall back on

 

[flecc]

Looks like Project Fear has started in earnest from the remain side.They seem to be the ones with all the negativity. It really is depressing how little confidence our so called leaders have in the British people and also in their capabilities of running a successful country without having the EU to fall back on

But that is how it has to be if the options are a present known or a future unknown.

Those promoting a future unknown have to be positive about the possibilities to attract others. Those backing the present known have to be negative about a future unknown to retain others.

That's fundamental to the nature of the situation.
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[trex]

I find both sides unconvincing at the moment.

 

[flecc]

I find both sides unconvincing at the moment.

This is one thing I find convincing.

Today our politicians again discussing raising the retirement age to 70 and looking forward to it being 75 or even 80 later.

Meanwhile in Europe where retirement ages of our nearest partners are often lower and state pensions much better, one leader is speaking of lowering the retirement age to 62.

Yet another of the very many ways in which the EU's politicians and bodies look after us so much better than any recent UK government does.
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[trex]

one thing is certain if we stay in, the EU budget will rise much faster than inflation because of their ambition, more people will resent our contribution to the EU budget than even now.

 

[derf]

This is one thing I find convincing.

Today our politicians again discussing raising the retirement age to 70 and looking forward to it being 75 or even 80 later.

Meanwhile in Europe where retirement ages of our nearest partners are often lower and state pensions much better, one leader is speaking of lowering the retirement age to 62.

Yet another of the very many ways in which the EU's politicians and bodies look after us so much better than any recent UK government does.
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yes, one way of making up ones mind is to take a good look at the kind of right wing, exceedingly rich non tax paying non-doms that support leaving so much

 

[flecc]

one thing is certain if we stay in, the EU budget will rise much faster than inflation because of their ambition, more people will resent our contribution to the EU budget than even now.

It will be just as bad here if out of the EU. The latest scam our politicians have dreamt up is taxing our pension contributions at source, to raise another £20 billions. The proposal is that they won't be taxed when we eventually collect them at god-knows-what age in future.

Yeah right. I can just see a future UK chancellor abiding by that. It'll just be double taxation again.
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[trex]

It will be just as bad here if out of the EU. The latest scam our politicians have dreamt up is taxing our pension contributions at source, to raise another £20 billions. The proposal is that they won't be taxed when we eventually collect them at god-knows-what age in future.

Yeah right. I can just see a future UK chancellor abiding by that. It'll just be double taxation again.
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the tories always prefer taking money where people are not looking.

latest poll:

remain: 51%
leave: 49%

leave has a small momentum at the moment.

 

[flecc]

latest poll:

remain: 51%
leave: 49%

leave has a small momentum at the moment.

Yes, still uncomfortably close and heading for a balance. In the end it may come down to a mix of cowardice and whether it's bucketing with rain on polling day.
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[gray198]

Yes, still uncomfortably close and heading for a balance. In the end it may come down to a mix of cowardice and whether it's bucketing with rain on polling day.
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There may be a lot undecided as in Gen election.Who knows which way they will swing.

 

[robert44]

It will be just as bad here if out of the EU. The latest scam our politicians have dreamt up is taxing our pension contributions at source, to raise another £20 billions. The proposal is that they won't be taxed when we eventually collect them at god-knows-what age in future.

Yeah right. I can just see a future UK chancellor abiding by that. It'll just be double taxation again.
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But at least you can vote our politicians out of office - we don't have the same power re our EU rulers?

 

[robert44]

But that is how it has to be if the options are a present known or a future unknown.

Those promoting a future unknown have to be positive about the possibilities to attract others. Those backing the present known have to be negative about a future unknown to retain others.

That's fundamental to the nature of the situation.
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But we are not going to stay in the "present known", we will be going into an unknown future whether we stay in the EU or not. The future of the EU is now looking more uncertain than it has ever done since it's inception.

 

[flecc]

There may be a lot undecided as in Gen election.Who knows which way they will swing.

Hence my mention of cowardice. When all else fails in reaching any decision, the undecided invariably opt for the known evil rather than risk the unknown.

It's one of the two reasons I think the referendum is a waste of time and money since the end result will be to remain.
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[trex]

But at least you can vote our politicians out of office - we don't have the same power re our EU rulers?

The 'triumvirate' (the European Commission, The Council of the EU and the European Parliament) is composed of directly and indirectly elected representatives of member countries so they do have democratic underpinning.
We can vote out our own representatives in the EU. We can't vote out representatives of other member countries.

 

[flecc]

But at least you can vote our politicians out of office - we don't have the same power re our EU rulers?

Of course, any degree of union agreement can't be achieved by 28 leaders arguing among themselves, as Cameron's renegotiation proved.

A small degree of dictatorship is necessary.
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[robert44]

Yes, still uncomfortably close and heading for a balance. In the end it may come down to a mix of cowardice and whether it's bucketing with rain on polling day.
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Cowardice on the part of who? Those who want outside of the EU or those who think it is best to stay within the EU, the so called unknown or the known? You could argue that going into the "unknown" is the braver option?