Leaving the EU

[Kudoscycles]

The biggest problem of voting OUT is who is going to be around in government to renegotiate all the new trade agreements,I dont think Cameron will have the appetite for the job.
I stiil wonder if we vote OUT whether the break would just be political,financially it may make little difference. I just cant imagine every export order being vat added and having to use a forwarding agent for every consignment.
KudosDave

 

[Croxden]

We only took to VAT so we could join, a costly way to collect the same amount of money and easily fiddled by some.

If ukip promised to return to purchase tax they might get my vote.

 

[trex]

that would be Boris. He has always been a shrewd operator, he'll negociate to get us back in one way or another. Exports to the EU would be the same as selling to Norway or Switzerland or the Channel Islands at the moment.
The thing is though, back in 1975, we were the sick man of Europe and yet, people who can remember us back then view the EU today as total failure. Who is kidding whom?

 

[flecc]

The thing is though, back in 1975, we were the sick man of Europe and yet, people who can remember us back then view the EU today as total failure. Who is kidding whom?

Yes, the memories of many are very short.
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[flecc]

If ukip promised to return to purchase tax they might get my vote.

Really? 33% on a huge range of things and 66% on those things government deemed a luxury but often weren't.

Not to mention the huge design damage that purchase tax brought.
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[Kudoscycles]

that would be Boris. He has always been a shrewd operator, he'll negociate to get us back in one way or another. Exports to the EU would be the same as selling to Norway or Switzerland or the Channel Islands at the moment.
The thing is though, back in 1975, we were the sick man of Europe and yet, people who can remember us back then view the EU today as total failure. Who is kidding whom?

Nothing wrong with the early 70's,I was young 20's,newly married and the lights kept going out.got to keep warm somehow,remember it well.
kudosDave

 

[trex]

and I remember living in a 2-up/2-down with the toilet outside in the back of the garden and coal in the basement.

 

[flecc]

And the IMF managed our economy in a far more extensive manner than the EU ever has.
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[the_killjoy]

Of course one of the issues is how the scots will vote ~ I could see them voting for the UK to leave the EU as if we did they would then have a legitimate reason to demand another devolution referendum.

It would all be about the long game ~ similarly labour supporters could vote to leave as it would force Cameron to resign.

 

[flecc]

Of course one of the issues is how the scots will vote ~ I could see them voting for the UK to leave the EU as if we did they would then have a legitimate reason to demand another devolution referendum.

I think that's an increasing certainty, only yesterday some SNP people were saying as much and couldn't envisage being taken out of the EU by England.

And that would largely be England voting out, since Wales tends to be more pro since some of their regions get more from the EU in grants than they pay out. West Wales would suffer very badly by the UK leaving the EU.
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[gray198]

I think that's an increasing certainty, only yesterday some SNP people were saying as much and couldn't envisage being taken out of the EU by England.

And that would largely be England voting out, since Wales tends to be more pro since some of their regions get more from the EU in grants than they pay out. West Wales would suffer very badly by the UK leaving the EU.

Just wonder
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[gray198]

Just wonder how the Scottish economy would cope with oil at 28 dollars a barrel, as they were basing a lot of their forecasts on a much higher price. They say that they do not want to go out if England votes to leave and want to go their own way and be ruled from Brussels instead of London. Could we decide that if Scotland votes to stay in at our expense to discount their vote as meaningless, which is what they seem to want to do. Seems to me that they will never be satisfied and only want democracy when it suits them

 

[flecc]

Just wonder how the Scottish economy would cope with oil at 28 dollars a barrel, as they were basing a lot of their forecasts on a much higher price. They say that they do not want to go out if England votes to leave and want to go their own way and be ruled from Brussels instead of London. Could we decide that if Scotland votes to stay in at our expense to discount their vote as meaningless, which is what they seem to want to do. Seems to me that they will never be satisfied and only want democracy when it suits them

I don't think any of this will arise. Scotland looks like voting to remain in the EU, Northern Ireland is definitely strongly in favour of staying in and Wales is likely to be tilted towards staying in.

To tilt the balance into leaving, England will have to overwhelmingly vote to leave, and I can't see that happening.

The most likely outcome in my view is that England will be closely in 50/50 balance and the other three will tilt the vote into staying.
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[trex]

I think the remainers are going to get it, possibly 52/48 in England.

this is the analysis from a recent YouGov poll of 22,000 Britons. No surprise there.

 

[gray198]

You could both be right, but as we know from the last election these polls can be wrong. Probably depends on the turnout and who can swing the undecided

 

[flecc]

Incidentally on the subject of euro lies and myths. Did you know that the chief purveyor of those lies was one Boris Johnson? When he was working for the Telegraph years ago he was asked to come up with anti EU stories, and it was him who was responsible for the fishermen must wear hairnets, and cucumbers must be straight, and many of the other anti EU black propaganda stories which were and still are believed.

And he's at it again now that he has joined the anti-EU brigade. He immediately repeated some blatantly untrue statements about EU requirements, obviously trusting that there are those gormless enough to believe anything he says.
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[electrickery]

Excellent thread and some very interesting points . I must compliment flecc for his very reasoned and well expressed arguments. Puts into words what much of what I feel. Regarding the Scottish vote I'm not sure if the independence folk might vote tactically to gain another referendum so may not be so overwhelming "in" in Scotland. For me it would be a retrograde step to come out. There seems to be a rise of nationalism round Europe at the moment and as I see it is the last thing we need. We should be working to improve the things on a global scale at the moment an to do that we need to be a part of major economic block. To pull out would entrench as as usa partners (puppets) waving our nuclear spears at those we disagree with.
Uk appears to me to be still ruled on a feudal (class) basis with banking and service industries being the major sectors. An out vote would reinforce that in my mind. And the trouble with a massive banking sector is what happens when it all goes wrong.. think irish potato famine.
Just a few slightly disjointed thoughts. Must get out on the bike to clear my head..
Regards

 

[gray198]

Hope you are feeling a bit better today Flecc

regards gray

 

[flecc]

Hope you are feeling a bit better today Flecc

regards gray

Yes, fine thanks Gray, been out in the sunshine and no problems despite it still being cold.

My heart related problems only cause me a bigger problem about once in a couple of months at present and I'm able to cope with that. Since my mother had one of the very first replacement heart valves many years ago, and my brother who is four years older than me had a heart valve replacement three years ago following similar symptoms, you can see which way it's pointing.

Could become a family tradition.
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[Lancslass]

I have family

Yes, fine thanks Gray, been out in the sunshine and no problems despite it still being cold.

My heart related problems only cause me a bigger problem about once in a couple of months at present and I'm able to cope with that. Since my mother had one of the very first replacement heart valves many years ago, and my brother who is four years older than me had a heart valve replacement three years ago following similar symptoms, you can see which way it's pointing.

Could become a family tradition.
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I have family health issues, resulting in getting a kidney transplant courtesy of my wonderful husband so we might disagree about the EU but I feel for you Flecc.