Is enough being done to bring new consumers to e-bikes?

[morphix]

I wonder if or how much of this is deliberate staff caused disruption? Earlier in their online postage enterprise I came across deliberate sabotage of the system, and they've also suffered deliberate sorting machinery sabotage. It's not always about management defects, the unions and individual militants have played a large part in many of the failures, and government policy and interventions have often been less than helpful.

That's an interesting take on it, I did wonder myself.. it just seems incredible that an organisation the size of Royal Mail with all its resources had its online postage services down for two weeks off and on. It caused myself no end of problems and the timing as Lemmy said, couldn't have come at worse time, peak of the retail season right before Christmas.

 

[flecc]

It is that timing that makes me so suspicious, it's just so convenient for the disrupters aims.

 

[HD462]

This is a great thread. Can I chip in my thoughts?

I think there are a few particular groups who, for different reasons, are inherently more interested in e-bikes than "Joe Average" would be....

In no particular order, I would suggest that e-bikes might appeal to:

1) Ex cyclists or returning cyclists.
Maybe the kind of people who used to like cycling, but who can't now do what they once did due to health concerns, gammy knees and the like. They used to enjoy the freedom of two wheeled travel, and are well aware of the hazards of traffic etc but would happily cycle with a bit of assistance on hills and longer trips.

2) The ecologically concerned.
Would ride an e-bike if it meant that they could do without a car. As long as the e-bike was, itself, reasonably "environmentally friendly" and didnt sport too big a carbon footprint. Just saying to them that a bike is not as bad for the environment as a car might not be enough to overcome their objections....

3) Commuters
They might not give two hoots about the technicalities of their bike. As long as it reliably and cheaply gets them from to home to work and back, or maybe from home to the railway station and back, and clearly saves them money in the reasonably short term. They are not interested if they have to wait umpteen years to recoop the cost of purchase and running the bike. They need to see a quick return. Sort of like the argument used when people give up smoking: put all the money that you are saving away each week and in a year you can treat yourself to xxxxxxxxx......

4) Hobbyists, engineers and tecchies
No offence meant if I put all these groups together. They are people who understand the electrical stuff of e-bikes, can build an ordinary bike up into a functioning e-bike, and then want to develop / improve / tweak the bike in a constant quest to get better efficiency and comfort for minimal outlay.

5) Campers and caravanners
Think active retired "empty nesters". Enough money to afford a significant camping unit of some kind, and enough time on their hands to get good use out of it. E-bikes would not be particularly expensive (in the overall scheme of their outlay on their motorhome or caravan and big tow car). And would enable them to get more enjoyment from their chosen hobby/lifestyle. And they may be at the age where they would appreciate the assistance of a powered cycle, whereas they might not bother with the effort of riding a normal pushbike.


How can the trade as a whole, and individual manufacturers and dealers, tap into each of those groups? Are there other groups that I have not spotted?

I would think that there is work being done to attract some of those groups, and some of those groups like the DIY enthusiasts will, by definition, attract themselves to parts suppliers and like minded enthusiasts. But what about groups like commuters and campers and the returning to cycling?

Just my two pennyworth......

I think you've summed it up perfectly there. I'd say I could fit into any/all of those categories, an eBike also fulfils my love of gadgety type things too.The most times I've seen electric bikes being promoted to the general public has been at caravan and camping shows I've been to.



Regards,
Mark.

 

[timidtom]

Unless battery costs get very much cheaper, I cannot see a large market for e-bikes. The motors could be very cheap with mass production, for example, a 1200 watt motored vacuum cleaner sells complete for less than £50. A low quality bike is less than £100 in Tescos, controllers, and throttles are not expensive. At a guess, you could produce a complete e-bike of ordinary quality for £200 if you could guarantee to sell lots of them. But it is the battery that is the problem. Not only do they use expensive materials, but they do not last for long.

I have to agree. I've long suggested that the fly in the pudding is the battery: 1) the cost of the darn thing, for a start, and 2) the lack of standardisation. It's as if the eBike industry had a death wish. We're happily retired, still running a car, still in love with cycling and camping. Our cycling is restricted to sunny days out. We ride do not ride into town to shop because the council is trying to kill us with stupidly designed cycle paths which end just where you need them to start. We cycle to shop at the village Co-op, but one of us stays with the bikes while t'other hunts and gathers.
Friends and relations admire the bikes but, as some body has already remarked, eyes glaze over when the conversation turns to batteries. I don't think a top figure of £200 is realistic but the lower end of the market must be tempted if the magic cult of the eBike is to prosper. What is the Model T of the world of eBikes? The Lagonda and Bentley end of the street is well served, but remember us of the lower orders and underclass, waiting for our bowls of gruel!

 

[banbury frank]

Hi The reply is SIMPLE go buy an electric car Note you cant buy the battery only the CAR you have to lease the battery approx £95 per month FOREVER . so £1,000 per year ++++

Frank

 

[timidtom]

Mr Honda built the 50cc c50 Cub scooter, the most popular bike ever made,i owned one for about 20 yrs,during that time it never failed to start and kept going no matter how much it was abused or neglected,rust got it in the end.Could Kudos or whoever go to China or better still Japan and bring back an e.bike equivalent to the c50 war horse.

My second powered 2 wheeler was a C50 ( first was a tandem with a clip-on Mini-Motor). My last powered 2 wheeler was a Honda ANF125 ( a Cub in a posh frock). In between came a string of British bikes and, a BMW flat-twin or two ....
The a tank-like PowaByke, which weighed a ton but would climb the side of a house (or Red Lane, as Warrintonians will know it). Now we ride a matched pair of Bob's bikes. The Bromptons still live in the boot of the car, purely for impulse rides. Somewhere out there is the modern incarnation of Mr Honda. Perhaps he's here, on this forum, waiting to emerge with the British bike revival? An eBike version of an Elswick-Hopper or New Hudson? A curly Hetchin's eBike? Not to weigh more than 20kg, range of 50 km, 5 year battery life, 20 mph ... dreams come true?

 

[banbury frank]

Hi

PS FUEL will soon be £10 per Gallon

The way the Chines economy is growing they will swallow the worlds fuel supply and push up the prices




Frank

 

[vectra]

The weight is an issue, agreed, a 28~30 mile range though should be achievable from a 37v / 10Ah for an average rider and to get over the reaction to speed I always say something along the lines that the motor will assist you up to 17~18mph....the reaction is very different vs 15mph! Then add in hill climbing ability and you can see people warm to the idea.

The biggest issue is the cost IME and the battery replacement...issues that are probably insurmountable to broad adoption....cheap bike with expensive replacement battery (why should I pay 40% of the cost of the bike every two years) or expensive bike and equally expensive battery with the initial price being the barrier.

Hi.
Weight is an issue however some retailers and a significant number of suppliers/manufacturers act as if it is not. One higher end supplier even takes pride in stating that it doesn't give weights and that we customers should visit a shop and look at the bikes! Sorry, I don't have that kind of time to waste.

As a customer I am finding the majority of retailers do not know the weights of the bikes that they retail. This is totally unacceptable and each time I enquire about weight I am given to understand that no-one else has ever asked the question before!

So, to answer just one part of the challenge. Retailers and suppliers should learn about the products and should provide the maximum amount of information possible. If I ask it's because I need to know.
Regards
cg0

 

[vectra]

Hi.
In 1998 I was responsible for supplying data services to a large publishing company in South Wales. Part of the network used to supply was our own and part was leased from BT. Weekly, we had network outages and all were on the BT link. When I attempted to meet with the BT manager responsible for maintenance he refused to meet me and provided the information that as we were a competitor of BT then we should expect that his BT Technical Officers would not be as diligent in their provision of ongoing service as they could be. Yes, sabotage did and probably does still exist in parts

 

[flecc]

Somewhere out there is the modern incarnation of Mr Honda. Perhaps he's here, on this forum, waiting to emerge with the British bike revival? An eBike version of an Elswick-Hopper or New Hudson? A curly Hetchin's eBike? Not to weigh more than 20kg, range of 50 km, 5 year battery life, 20 mph ... dreams come true?

I think it's not so much a Mr Honda, more a Mr "Battery" needed to make this happen, and it certainly isn't imminent. Batteries do not exist that can meet that weight/range/life specification, and outside of parts of the USA, nowhere permits unregistered 20 mph assistance.

 

[mike killay]

I don't understand why weight is an issue.
My bike weighs about 30 kilos now,I have no problem with that. It climbs all the steep hills around where I live. As I weigh 105 kilos, reducing the weight of my bike to 15 kilos if at all possible would not make any particular difference, OK, it would go up hills slightly faster, but I am not that fussed.

 

[indalo]

I don't understand why weight is an issue.
My bike weighs about 30 kilos now,I have no problem with that. It climbs all the steep hills around where I live. As I weigh 105 kilos, reducing the weight of my bike to 15 kilos if at all possible would not make any particular difference, OK, it would go up hills slightly faster, but I am not that fussed.

Mike, I agree that bicycle weight isn't the be-all and end-all of ebike performance. Having said that, a lighter bike is desirable in a variety of ways and that's why those that are usually wear fairly large price tags and people do pay for the benefits conferred by lightness.

Indalo

 

[neptune]

@Banbury Frank. OK so £1000 a year is a lot of money in a way to rent an electric battery for a car. I have not done my homework, but I would guess that such a battery has a capacity of 10 times that of a bike battery. If that is the case, and the hire cost is proportional to Ah capacity, then it should be possible to rent a 15 or 20 Ah battery, or a smaller one if preferred, for £100 per year, or two quid a week . BRING IT ON !

 

[flecc]

These rental figures are false, just a way of getting people to buy an electric car and be trapped into unguaranteed battery rental costs. For example, the Nissan Leaf also comes as the Renault Fluence (Renault own Nissan).

The Nissan battery costs over £16,000, the Renault rental of the same battery is £800 a year.

The battery is warranted for five years and said to be good for 7 years. Knowing what we do about batteries, the shorter figure is more likely.

So how does £800 a year equal £16,000 after 5 or 7 years? Of course it doesn't, the £800 is a blatant and obvious confidence trick. A large part of the difference is recovered by charging more for the car less battery in the first instance, but the battery rental will also have to rise rapidly and steeply during the battery life to cover it's true cost.
.

 

[mike killay]

Yes Indalo,
I can see that lightness would have advantages, but would it be strong enough for me?
Lots of things, bikes, garden chairs, step ladders have a limit of 100 Kg at most.

 

[flecc]

I can see that lightness would have advantages, but would it be strong enough for me?
Lots of things, bikes, garden chairs, step ladders have a limit of 100 Kg at most.

Yes, its historic design that needs to be changed. This is not solely an obesity issue, good nutrition and living standards have resulted in many much taller people, so those well over 6 feet tall can easily breach a 100 kilo limit.

The design limit needs to be a minimum of 120 kilos now.

 

[vectra]

I don't understand why weight is an issue.
My bike weighs about 30 kilos now,I have no problem with that. It climbs all the steep hills around where I live. As I weigh 105 kilos, reducing the weight of my bike to 15 kilos if at all possible would not make any particular difference, OK, it would go up hills slightly faster, but I am not that fussed.

Mike.
Weight is an issue for the reason that I as a customer determine it is an issue. The belief of many suppliers is exactly the same as your own. I wish suppliers would listen to me as a customer and maybe they might sell me a couple of bikes.

The reason weight is an issue? I caravan and I carry my bikes on the roof of my car. Simple, if they are too heavy to lift or carry on the roof bars then they are too heavy.

Just one more niche group where weight is an issue but each niche group adds up to a sizeable potential market. So, to summarise. I appreciate that weight may not be a concern to many however it certainly is to many others and I wish suppliers would take note.
vectra

 

[mike killay]

Mike.
Weight is an issue for the reason that I as a customer determine it is an issue. The belief of many suppliers is exactly the same as your own. I wish suppliers would listen to me as a customer and maybe they might sell me a couple of bikes.

The reason weight is an issue? I caravan and I carry my bikes on the roof of my car. Simple, if they are too heavy to lift or carry on the roof bars then they are too heavy.

Just one more niche group where weight is an issue but each niche group adds up to a sizeable potential market. So, to summarise. I appreciate that weight may not be a concern to many however it certainly is to many others and I wish suppliers would take note.
vectra

Now I understand,
Mike

 

[mike killay]

Yes, its historic design that needs to be changed. This is not solely an obesity issue, good nutrition and living standards have resulted in many much taller people, so those well over 6 feet tall can easily breach a 100 kilo limit.

The design limit needs to be a minimum of 120 kilos now.

Exactly, I am 6'2". Not only am I taller, but my skeleton is wider and deeper front to back. At 105 kilos I am not at all fat. I just wish manufacturers would join the present day.