Carrera Vulcan e spec advise sort

[Baz the balloon man]

Hi
I have been reading some posts on here and after many hours days going round in circles thought I had better look for some help so here I find my self.

I have bought an ex display Carrera e spec bike from Halfords with a battery and display missing being me I thought it would be easy to find the bits and so get a first cheap e bike.

Wow how wrong I was !!

so after many days I have come to the conclusion after then realising the Crank Sensor was also missing the best thing to do after reading posts on here is to leave the Suntours motor in place then strip and sell the remaining e bike bits ie controller , battery holder, and possibly the crank set and upgrade the rest of the system to a 48 v with a better battery .
And new controller ECT

I have spent hours ,days on e bay , Amazon , Aliexpress driving my self round the bend because I really do not know what I am doing yet although I can use a spanner

once I work out a kit with a budget to suit this bike the thing that is a worry is :

How to wire any new controller into the Suntours Hub motor wire or can this even be done ?

Or will it have to be completely rewired into the hub motor ie taking out the factory fitted wire connector coming out of the motor ?

I have seen on u tube some thing similar and a post on here that suggested this is an option for a Carrera.

Any advise would be very much appreciated.

I will find some one local to NW London to do this bit for me.

Cheers

Baz

 

[Saracen]

This is why unless you know what you are doing I would always go to a professional fitter.

 

[saneagle]

There is a thread somewhere, where it's already been done on similar bike, possibly a Crossfire. Try typing into Google "pedelecs carrera KT controller" and see what vomes up.

I haven't done it myself, but I understand how the Carrera bikes work and the other stuff. The motors work the same with the same wires, but you need to cut off a connector and solder the 9 wires either to each other or another connector. The wires might be the same colour, but won't necessarily work when you join colour to colour, so you need to temporarily join them with a screw connector block or similar until you find the correct sequence, then solder them.

The frame has a couple of lugs for the battery mounting. If you want to fit a downtube battery (recommended), you need to grind off the lugs. The rest is pretty straight forward.

The KT 15A 36v/48v controller is the one I'd recommend because it's quite small. I prefer the one with the block type connectors because they're easier to fault-find if you get problems. I wouldn't go higher on the current because the gears in the Suntour motor have been known to strip.

The bottom bracket ssshould be standard, so no problem to fit a normal crank, which will save a lot of weight, and the Suntour ones are quite hard to find, so you should get a good price on Ebay.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Hi Saneagle

Thanks for this very helpful I thought this is how it might work .

I think I read the Cross fire thread but could not find it again

I was a bit worried about the wire colour connection ie if the colours did not match then trial and error might cause damage or cause some thing to blow in the motor or new controller.

I will try and find out which colour wires do what in the Suntours motor and visa versa in the new controller.

All the Carrera e bit are now on e bay and gumtree including the motor and rim if it all sells then I will just buy a whole new 48 v kit.

Then I have a giant Anthem 2019 full suspension to covert for the wife which is a new learning experience already !



Cheers

Baz

 

[Az.]

Then I have a giant Anthem 2019 full suspension to covert for the wife which is a new learning experience already !

Which won't be easy at all.

 

[saneagle]

Hi Saneagle

Thanks for this very helpful I thought this is how it might work .

I think I read the Cross fire thread but could not find it again

I was a bit worried about the wire colour connection ie if the colours did not match then trial and error might cause damage or cause some thing to blow in the motor or new controller.

I will try and find out which colour wires do what in the Suntours motor and visa versa in the new controller.

All the Carrera e bit are now on e bay and gumtree including the motor and rim if it all sells then I will just buy a whole new 48 v kit.

Then I have a giant Anthem 2019 full suspension to covert for the wife which is a new learning experience already !



Cheers

Baz

No damage will occur if you just test with a little bit of power.

 

[Nealh]

It has been done and not just once , we have had two or three go down the Carerra /suntour conversion route.
The only issue you will have is to decide where to place the controller , either in a tool bag under the saddle or in a under slung crossbar bag .
WIth the Suntour one needs to keep the motor connector and cable end that goes to the controller , the wires matching colour to colour has been successful and has worked.
Before one goes mad soldering everything one needs to use a household wire strip connector block to make all the connections for testing, once everything is ok then one can solder the pairs of wires together and heat shrink each joint. Sometimes one may have to change the Phase /Hall wire sequence ( if the motor for some reason doesn't run correctly), with the strip connector block one can do this simply if need be to find the corrct wire configuration.
Once the controller is wired evrything else is plug and play , one may need to do something with the two battery wires .

KT Keunteng controllers are highly recommended ( esp by saneagle & myself ) also a matching LCD display. Apparently so saneagle says , the suntour is quite torquey so 36v is very good for the bike and 48v may be too much for it, one can opt for 6 mosfet 17a controller or may be a 9 mosfet 22a controller for better heat control (in which case one would need to house it in a larger under slung cross bar bag.

For a Pas opt for a 10 pole version , add a rear wheel speed sensor and a throttle to the kit (as both may be needed later on). One doesn't need a brake sensor with a KT controller unless a throttle is used.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Thanks for all of this
I am 60 overweight and recently started going to work on a limebike as part of getting fitter.
I have not really been into bikes since the 1970s when I got a Chipper and was jealous because my older brother got a Chopper .

But after that I did have a road racer very very light and fast up to the age of 17

looking for range over speed and want to stay 100% Road legal as I think it’s only a matter of time befor the DVLA start cracking down on the powerful illegal bikes on the road.

Thats why I was thinking of using the 48 v battery with a big AH.
but it would be good to find a battery with integrated controller to just go back in the same place as the E Spec battery that has come off the bike and plug and play into a new motor keep it straight forward.

As its a new Carrera and if all the suntour parts sell which I think they should as they are expensive or hard to get I will probably go for a Bafang motor mid drive or hub already been looking at these for the Giant Medium frame

I found a mid drive 250w with 100mm BB on Ali Express I think it’s new so just waiting to hopefully hear back from Giant to see if the BB is the pressed in type before I take the crank off to see for myself.

 

[saneagle]

Thanks for all of this
I am 60 overweight and recently started going to work on a limebike as part of getting fitter.
I have not really been into bikes since the 1970s when I got a Chipper and was jealous because my older brother got a Chopper .

But after that I did have a road racer very very light and fast up to the age of 17

looking for range over speed and want to stay 100% Road legal as I think it’s only a matter of time befor the DVLA start cracking down on the powerful illegal bikes on the road.

Thats why I was thinking of using the 48 v battery with a big AH.
but it would be good to find a battery with integrated controller to just go back in the same place as the E Spec battery that has come off the bike and plug and play into a new motor keep it straight forward.

As its a new Carrera and if all the suntour parts sell which I think they should as they are expensive or hard to get I will probably go for a Bafang motor mid drive or hub already been looking at these for the Giant Medium frame

I found a mid drive 250w with 100mm BB on Ali Express I think it’s new so just waiting to hopefully hear back from Giant to see if the BB is the pressed in type before I take the crank off to see for myself.

The problem you have fitting a mid drive to a modern full suspension mtb is that they're designed with a small chainwheel so that they can have wide chainstays for big tyres. That means that the front of the chainstays catch on the motor housing., so make sure that you definitely have enough space for the motor on the right side.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Going back to the Carrera Vulcan do you know if any one has been able to defeat or copy the communication between the original battery and Suntours controller so enable an after market battery to work as this is my main problem .

I saw one on Amazon sold be Seasons shop for £220.00 that on the feedback claimed it fitted and worked a Carrera problem is it’s now out of stock .
It was listed as a replacement battery for the original Phylion one

Halfords want nearly 500 quid for a refurbished one which would bring the cost of the bike over what a brand new one would cost with the other bits needed.

with the Seasons battery if they in fact do work the only down side would be a separate housing for the controller which is currently housed in the Phylion mount.

But hey at £220.00 One could buy 2 of these for the same price as Halfords if they come back into stock.

My friend said he knows a really good local e bike electrical guy who does this sort of thing but I have not got his contact details as yet.

 

[Az.]

Wouldn't it be cheaper and easier to replace all electric bits (including motor) with generic Chinese stuff?

I found a mid drive 250w with 100mm BB on Ali Express I think it’s new so just waiting to hopefully hear back from Giant to see if the BB is the pressed in type before I take the crank off to see for myself.

BB shouldn't be a problem. It is the shape of the frame around BB that will make it very difficult to convert. Can you show us some pictures please?

 

[saneagle]

BB shouldn't be a problem. It is the shape of the frame around BB that will make it very difficult to convert. Can you show us some pictures please?

I forgot to mention in my last post that the BB can be a big problem unless you like making stuff. You need special adaptors for a press-fit BB, then you need to add a torque arm to stop the motor from rotating around the BB for which I found a good solution in my last build.

 

[Az.]

I forgot to mention in my last post that the BB can be a big problem unless you like making stuff. You need special adaptors for a press-fit BB, then you need to add a torque arm to stop the motor from rotating around the BB for which I found a good solution in my last build.

This bracket is entirely optional. It is irrelevant though as I don't think he will be able to install mid drive there

One moment, please...

Front wheel conversion makes no sense. Rear wheel drive on bike like that would be an act of desperation. Best to look for another donor IMO.

 

[saneagle]

This bracket is entirely optional. It is irrelevant though as I don't think he will be able to install mid drive there

One moment, please...

Front wheel conversion makes no sense. Rear wheel drive on bike like that would be an act of desperation. Best to look for another donor IMO.

What bracket are you talking about? If you mean the torque arm, it's not optional if you have a PF BB.

My main bike is full suspension and has a rear hub-motor. It's probably the best ebike I've ever ridden for the road and cycle route type trails.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Wouldn't it be cheaper and easier to replace all electric bits (including motor) with generic Chinese stuff?



BB shouldn't be a problem. It is the shape of the frame around BB that will make it very difficult to convert. Can you show us some pictures please?

Rear wheel would be fine
, I have seen a mid drive done on this bike on utube.If it’s not the pressed in type bracket
But we want to stay Road legal so again Bafang that fits may be an issue so if suitable back wheel motor may do with a saddle type battery
just read an articles City of London Police have been stopping the oversize e bikes seizing then and giving tickets for driving offences too.

London E bikes are in my road so Jezz has been giving some good advise and a reasonable cost for his kits just looking at options right now.


My wife really likes this bike and wants to keep it but I have also put it on e bay for £700.00 I think they where over 3K when new

 

[saneagle]

Unless your wife is very heavy, you should use a small, light cassette hub-motor, like the Bafang G370, definitely a KT controller, and a downtube battery with the cables re-routed. Don't just accept any kit because it's available or because your friend recommends it.

I'm very nervous about that London Ebikes hub-motor kit. It'll be very low power and systems with phone apps, have never succeeded so far. Also, it looks like a freewheel motor.

It's always better to buy stuff that you can fix yourself, get spare parts and have your own control over settings , assistance, etc.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

No she is very light and slim from Vietnam . So used to riding bikes around Saigon .
well motor bikes really but they do not drive very fast over there in the city’s.

Going back Carrea Vulcan project

what do you think of the yose components on there uk web site including controller just to make life simple getting all there components from the Suntours motor onwards they have it all on one site.

Or if we stick with the KT controller then use the other Yose components is it that fault finding is easier with the KT as the yose looks to be sealed

They also have a cable kit that has both male and female motor connections that will help when going into the Suntours motor I am warming to the ideas of keeping it as no real response on e bay so far to selling it

WITH THE 36 v 17.4 AH battery yose battery

E-Bike Accessories

Professional manufacturer and seller of electric bike, electric bicycle batteries, ebike conversion kits. The same product with Amazon and lower price.

www.yosepower.co.uk

 

[saneagle]

No she is very light and slim from Vietnam . So used to riding bikes around Saigon .
well motor bikes really but they do not drive very fast over there in the city’s.

Going back Carrea Vulcan project

what do you think of the yose components on there uk web site including controller just to make life simple getting all there components from the Suntours motor onwards they have it all on one site.

Or if we stick with the KT controller then use the other Yose components is it that fault finding is easier with the KT as the yose looks to be sealed

They also have a cable kit that has both male and female motor connections that will help when going into the Suntours motor I am warming to the ideas of keeping it as no real response on e bay so far to selling it

WITH THE 36 v 17.4 AH battery yose battery

E-Bike Accessories

Professional manufacturer and seller of electric bike, electric bicycle batteries, ebike conversion kits. The same product with Amazon and lower price.

www.yosepower.co.uk

Everything about the Yose kits is good apart from the controller. Those Lishui controllers use speed control, which is shite. If you've never ridden an ebike before, you'll probably think it's OK, but once you've tried a KT, there's no way back. KT, as an upgrade, is about £80. Obviously, it's going to be a lot cheaper and convenient to to get a kit that already has one.

Alternatively, you can buy the components from China. PSWPower, Topbikekit, BMSBattery are all good suppliers. Some of them have Aliexpress listing too, which can make ordering a bit easier. I prefer to buy from China because you can get exactly what you want. They have everything.

I think I said it before, but I prefer to use the controller's with block connectors. Most ready-made kits don't have them. When you use the sealed waterproof ones and something doesn't work, it's virtually impossible to test what' wrong, and the cables are always too long, so you have to find a way to store the extra length. When you have a separate aluminium box type controller, it's very easy to change it for a different one if it takes your fancy. I just changed my 14A one to 22A because I'm a bit weak after illness. It's a 5 minute job to do that. You're pretty well stuck with the ones that sit in the battery receiver. My controller sits in one of those under-seat toolbars along with all the extra cable, a multi-tool and a puncture kit.

One more thing. When you buy a kit from China, like the PSWpower one, it's £2 extra to throw in a spare motor cable, like you want. The more things you add, the cheaper it becomes.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Ok thanks all sounds good feel like I am going to get this done soon.

Definitely going for the KT contra and will look for the other bits on the sites you have recommended.

 

[Baz the balloon man]

Wouldn't it be cheaper and easier to replace all electric bits (including motor) with generic Chinese stuff?



BB shouldn't be a problem. It is the shape of the frame around BB that will make it very difficult to convert. Can you show us some pictures please?

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