Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
High dose vitamin C is also suspected of increasing the likelihood of those who are prone to the issue to suffer from kidney stones.Ok, I can agree with the above - having the $hits constantly is bad ;-)
However whenever I've heard the advice on VitC dosage and working up to bowel tolerance, what they tell you to do is to SLOWLY work up, day by day over some weeks (that's really important!), until you do start to then get loose stools, then you back off so you DON'T get the runs.
There is only one day or so when you might get an issue, but then you know where you are max dosage wise, and you're good to go. This is on my list of things to do shortly
Super high dosing can be in the hundreds of thousands of grams per day with amazing results. However that has to be administered intravenously! (I shudder to think what might happen if you tried that orally LOL)
Most people can get up to around 20g per day via tablet/powder. But 4-6g per day seems a sensible minimum target to aim for from what I've read (spread out over the day - not all in one go!)
I have merely pointed out some strange anomalies where data presented by some media outlets doesn't seem to tally up with even the SAME data on the original source.
So can you explain what's going on with the icnarc graphs I pointed to, where both Danidl and myself both interpret a roughly 50/50 vacinated/unvaccinated ratio in the intensive care, yet the sources you used say its 80% or more for the unvaccinated?
Maybe Danidl and myself have made an error of interpretation. Maybe your sources are wrong. lets try and find out!!
I am a regular reporter of errors.Ok, I can agree with the above - having the $hits constantly is bad ;-)
However whenever I've heard the advice on VitC dosage and working up to bowel tolerance, what they tell you to do is to SLOWLY work up, day by day over some weeks (that's really important!), until you do start to then get loose stools, then you back off so you DON'T get the runs.
There is only one day or so when you might get an issue, but then you know where you are max dosage wise, and you're good to go. This is on my list of things to do shortly
Super high dosing can be in the hundreds of thousands of grams per day with amazing results. However that has to be administered intravenously! (I shudder to think what might happen if you tried that orally LOL)
Most people can get up to around 20g per day via tablet/powder. But 4-6g per day seems a sensible minimum target to aim for from what I've read (spread out over the day - not all in one go!)
I found a seriously wrong statement in a major document used in the UK to justify thyroid treatment for many years. It was published in 2006 - and is still being listed as a current document:
However, it both says within that it requires review after something like three years. And I was utterly unable to get the mistake corrected. I managed to contact the senior author who was utterly amazed no-one had previously noticed. He tried to correct it but, having retired, had no position to impose the required change. No-one else has even responded.
(In my view, things like guidelines should have a review date after which they automatically become defunct. That it is still there after 15 years or so is appalling.)
I have just now also found an egregious error in a vitamin C document - probably a typo but someone could be seriously misled if they take it at face value. Have reported that as well.
When you see so many mistakes, ones that are totally unarguable, you do lose faith in the authors and those who read them but fail to notice, or - having noticed - fail to do anything about them.
Someone close to me almost died and the A&E doctor said: "The dose is too high." then (seconds later) "The dose is too low." And ended up doing nothing.
I haven't looked at the graphs linked on this thread recently about unvaccinated people in ICU etc, but I have posted before about this situation. As mentioned previously I have a lot of friends and family either still working or recently retired from the NHS, and so get to hear what is going on. For probably over 6 months now most (but not all) of the patients in ICU in the couple of large general hospitals in my area have been unvaxxed. As I wrote in the past about this, there is absolutely no reason for the people working on these wards to be lying about this situation.
One thing though that perhaps I should have mentioned is that the people that end up in ICU and on ventilators etc are carefully selected. Here are a few examples that hopefully demonstrate what I mean.
Two people are in hospital with serious Covid symptoms, one a reasonable healthy 40 year old unvaxxed individual, the other an 86 year old double and boosted vaxxed with lots of underlying health problems. Who do you think is likely to go to ICU and perhaps put on a ventilator.
Some more examples, same 40 year old as above but a 78 year old man double vaxxed and boosted with late stage dementia, who is likely to go to ICU.
40 year old as above, 89 year old double vaxxed and boosted in reasonable health for his age apart for the serious covid of course, but he has given family instructions he does not want to be put on a ventilator or have any long term and intrusive health interventions (this situation is very common speak to any nurse working on an acute ward).
So what I am saying is that the people who end up in ICU are the ones that the health staff think have the best chance of pulling through and making a decent recovery after being put on a ventilator etc. These will often be the younger people who are often unvaxxed. So it's not completely unsurprising that we see a lot of unvaxxed younger people in ICU, because a lot of older vaxxed people who have bad covid probably would be unlikely to survive or make a decent recovery from the kinds of interventions they would have to have on an ICU ward.
One thing though that perhaps I should have mentioned is that the people that end up in ICU and on ventilators etc are carefully selected. Here are a few examples that hopefully demonstrate what I mean.
Two people are in hospital with serious Covid symptoms, one a reasonable healthy 40 year old unvaxxed individual, the other an 86 year old double and boosted vaxxed with lots of underlying health problems. Who do you think is likely to go to ICU and perhaps put on a ventilator.
Some more examples, same 40 year old as above but a 78 year old man double vaxxed and boosted with late stage dementia, who is likely to go to ICU.
40 year old as above, 89 year old double vaxxed and boosted in reasonable health for his age apart for the serious covid of course, but he has given family instructions he does not want to be put on a ventilator or have any long term and intrusive health interventions (this situation is very common speak to any nurse working on an acute ward).
So what I am saying is that the people who end up in ICU are the ones that the health staff think have the best chance of pulling through and making a decent recovery after being put on a ventilator etc. These will often be the younger people who are often unvaxxed. So it's not completely unsurprising that we see a lot of unvaxxed younger people in ICU, because a lot of older vaxxed people who have bad covid probably would be unlikely to survive or make a decent recovery from the kinds of interventions they would have to have on an ICU ward.
I have not looked over the original sources for your or Zlatans data, but there are any number of ways the information could be reconciled ... In any hospital or group of hospitals the number of people in the ICUs might be 80%. . So a Dr in Oxford for instance will be looking at his area. But the other point is much easier to reconcile... The table Zlatan quoted was valid for May into July ..when the ratio was 20% fully vaxxed, and the remainder partially or non vaxxed. My response was based on the November data.
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Nev... I can attest to the requirement and competition for admission to ICUs. My son, was deteriorating from complications with his CF . Infections had gone mad, , and we had already been given "the talk " by the consultants that they were just going to let him go. One of the younger consultants, not actually on his team, but with recent knowledge of autoimmunity, suspected that might be the problem, and only on that basis was he admitted. He was correct and our son is still with us 14 years later. But they would have left the ICU bed idle unless they had had an expectation of success.
Nobody is competent to be their own physician.. that is an axiom. But even lay people can figure out that there is a problem with others ... The number of minor and serious ailments in children recognised by parents is legion. The big problem is that lay people will home in on an obvious symptom and not an underlying cause.
If I said sleep apnea ....what would you diagnose?. Would heart problems be high on your list?.If I say burping, would you start looking at arteries, ..or use milk of magnesia?. If I said tinnitus, would you look to blood pressure ...
Said a man of perfectly sound mind who is able to present a rational argument based real world observations. The perspicacity of your remarks is refreshing. Well done you.my vitamin c comes in 2.5l bottles
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Hey Jesus!
Your words of wisdom have met with success
"
Getting Covid booster follows ‘teaching of Jesus Christ’, says Boris Johnson
PM urges public to take up jab in Christmas message that echoes archbishop saying vaccination is ‘how we love our neighbour’
I am amazed he reads your posts!
Probably the boys and girls at Menwith Hill put him wise.
And of course our Xmas message to them
"Merry Christmas y'all we rely on your support!"
Your words of wisdom have met with success
"
Getting Covid booster follows ‘teaching of Jesus Christ’, says Boris Johnson
PM urges public to take up jab in Christmas message that echoes archbishop saying vaccination is ‘how we love our neighbour’
I am amazed he reads your posts!
Probably the boys and girls at Menwith Hill put him wise.
And of course our Xmas message to them
"Merry Christmas y'all we rely on your support!"
Obviously you are getting decrypts of SW's resistance cell messages faster than I am, must act them to work faster.
The fat useless twat reads everything I write.Hey Jesus!
Your words of wisdom have met with success
"
Getting Covid booster follows ‘teaching of Jesus Christ’, says Boris Johnson
PM urges public to take up jab in Christmas message that echoes archbishop saying vaccination is ‘how we love our neighbour’
I am amazed he reads your posts!
Probably the boys and girls at Menwith Hill put him wise.
And of course our Xmas message to them
"Merry Christmas y'all we rely on your support!"
Agreed.
The big problem in the parts I inhabit is when you see a doctor who then fails to help.
You cannot simply go back again and again - whether to the same or other doctors. (Many do question their own sanity and doing so would appear to confirm mental issues to the doctors as well.)
I don't wholly blame GPs. They are not expected to know and understand every disorder. But they need to be able to refer - whether to a consultant or some other way of delivering specialist support. They need to be able to order tests. Not find that the system doesn't allow a test, or - having requested it - the request simply gets ignored.
I see people who have tried medicine B because they were treated elsewhere - another country - where use of B is well-known and widely supported. They are doing just fine but need a new prescription. But are refused B and forced to change to A. On which they suffer every minute of every day. From the patient's point of view, they have nearly cast iron proof that B works for them far better than A. (There is published literature which explains why this is sometimes the case. Even, sometimes, specific genetic inheritances as well as family history.)
What would you do if you were that patient? Continue suffering on A or acquire B from abroad - which is entirely legal. If you choose B, your GP will likely wash their hands of you and your case, if they find out. There are quite a number who religiously accept repeat prescriptions for A, while taking B, so that they don't upset their GP. Can cause horrible issues if the GP finds out.
In many ways, the system as it exists, and not only in the UK, forces patients into making choices they really don't want to make.
(Ironic footnote. B is used, in the UK and elsewhere, in braindead potential organ donors to maintain the bodies for organ harvest. It is also sometimes used in psychiatry. And is being used by some heart doctors both for preparation for surgery and ongoing treatment. Its uses are expanding. Just not as a regular alternative to A.)
Adding:
It really doesn't help that so many patients get told that it's not their thyroid issue, it's something else causing their symptoms. But no doctor ever identifies the something else - all too often, not even trying.
Glad I saw that while I was in the bathroom with the WC close by.Hey Jesus!
Your words of wisdom have met with success
"
Getting Covid booster follows ‘teaching of Jesus Christ’, says Boris Johnson
PM urges public to take up jab in Christmas message that echoes archbishop saying vaccination is ‘how we love our neighbour’
I am amazed he reads your posts!
Probably the boys and girls at Menwith Hill put him wise.
And of course our Xmas message to them
"Merry Christmas y'all we rely on your support!"
More paracetamol for number 10.
New Wales coalmine may soon be approved despite Cop26 pledges
Conditional licence granted in 2016 at Aberpergym has led to row between Whitehall and devolved administration
www.theguardian.com
New Wales coalmine may soon be approved despite Cop26 pledges
Conditional licence granted in 2016 at Aberpergym has led to row between Whitehall and devolved administration
Wales coalmine extension may soon be approved despite Cop26 pledges
Conditional licence granted in 2016 at Aberpergwm has led to row between Whitehall and devolved administration
www.theguardian.com
According to Times and Independant we'll be offered our 4th shot at least 4 months after 3rd. That takes yours truly to beginning of March..
Comment from Dr Anthony Harden (vice chair of JCVI,, yesterday evening)
???
Same story again tho... 90% at what. Keeping ICU full of unvaccinated or stopping Covid in its tracks. Suspect this misuse of statistics is adding confusion for those inclined to find fault .(in his defence he does attempt to clarify)
You would have thought by now they had learnt. Footballers get training for months about what to say and what not to say to media.
Shame unimportant folk like deputy head of JCVI don't get same.
I think it's fostering (and festering) trouble in many peoples minds and leads us to generally be inappreciative of what vaccines (antigens) have achieved.It sends such as GIjoe back to Google and then he ends up on some anti vaxx YouTube/face book site.
They should be more honest, precise and down to earth. Banding about claims of 90% efficiency started this row. And it's not just privvy to Pedelel forum.He should just say rewards far outweigh the risks. Get it.
I, ll be having my injection when available. If it keeps me out of a hospital bed so somebody else can use it... Suits me absolutely fine thanks.
Comment from Dr Anthony Harden (vice chair of JCVI,, yesterday evening)
???
Same story again tho... 90% at what. Keeping ICU full of unvaccinated or stopping Covid in its tracks. Suspect this misuse of statistics is adding confusion for those inclined to find fault .(in his defence he does attempt to clarify)
You would have thought by now they had learnt. Footballers get training for months about what to say and what not to say to media.
Shame unimportant folk like deputy head of JCVI don't get same.
I think it's fostering (and festering) trouble in many peoples minds and leads us to generally be inappreciative of what vaccines (antigens) have achieved.It sends such as GIjoe back to Google and then he ends up on some anti vaxx YouTube/face book site.
They should be more honest, precise and down to earth. Banding about claims of 90% efficiency started this row. And it's not just privvy to Pedelel forum.He should just say rewards far outweigh the risks. Get it.
I, ll be having my injection when available. If it keeps me out of a hospital bed so somebody else can use it... Suits me absolutely fine thanks.
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I have deep doubts about the sense of getting a fourth using an existing vaccine if there are updated vaccines in the pipeline. Might it not be better to defer, and just get the updated one?
If effective treatments do actually arrive, and are available to everyone who needs them, the vaccination programs might be seen as far less important.
Yep, probably. Think most of us have a couple of months to decide. See what infection rate is by March and there should be more info about omni variant jabs and perhaps one more along lines Flecc talks of. But I don't think much will have changed. There might even be another more infectious less virilent strain.
To be honest I think it's same justification over 3rd as 4th. Some people had 3rd vaccine (a full dose) followed by a 4th booster. (I have 2 friends who have, one under going chemo, other has a congenital immuno problem?)
Again, I, ll be listening to JCVI etc, if not you get dragged into GI's /Soundwave's recruitment drives and doctrination.
Said it all along. Research for all of this is way beyond our pay grades. Boils down to listening to some bloke on Pedelec forum/facebook/YouTube or Chris Witty Etal. I, ll stick with Witty.
If he, s fecked up, at least there will be millions of us... All over planet.
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Gi
If you don't accept figures around ICU occupancy from BBC last night, from ONS etc etc just pop to your local Hospital. Have a word with anybody who works on ICU ward.
I have 2 good friends whose wives work on ICU wards. Anecdotally they both say nearly all their patients are unvaccinated or very old.
They have absutely no vested interest in lying. And statistically you can't put a figure on "nearly all" but you don't need to. Vaccines/antigens are Keeping thousands out of ICU.
If you don't accept figures around ICU occupancy from BBC last night, from ONS etc etc just pop to your local Hospital. Have a word with anybody who works on ICU ward.
I have 2 good friends whose wives work on ICU wards. Anecdotally they both say nearly all their patients are unvaccinated or very old.
They have absutely no vested interest in lying. And statistically you can't put a figure on "nearly all" but you don't need to. Vaccines/antigens are Keeping thousands out of ICU.
Me too, you have to put some trust into these people otherwise society would break down completely. I am retired so have time to take a bit more interest in both health and political matters than I did when I was working but I still try not to get too consumed with it.
A young family moved to live close to me about a year ago, I had said hello to the husband a couple of times but not really had a conversation with him until a few days ago. He is probably mid 30s and we started talking about covid and he said he had been off work recently for 6 weeks. I asked was it the virus and he said no it was stress brought on by worrying about the virus. Apparently every evening when he came home from work he would be on line seeing what the latest news was, going on YT and seeing what various experts were saying etc. he would spend hours each evening looking into all this and it all got too much for him.
I think this is an easy trap to get yourself into, I use a financial forum and there is a guy on there who must spend hours and hours everyday looking at all things CV related and I have noticed over time he is slipping into the conspiracy theory mind set. Other people have tried to warn him about this but he doesn't take the blindest bit of notice. I imagine there are thousands and thousands of people just like him.