Brexit, for once some facts.

[Zlatan]

It's not necessarily any lack of power/torque for towing with electric vehicles it's a problem with type approval and an issue regarding associated systems coping with extra stress.
For example you average ICE tow vehicle will weigh around 1500 kg. Stick a ton behind it and your gross train weight is still within fairly safe limits for brakes, suspension etc...
Get that same vehicle in EV form and it will be around 500kg heavier. Yes, range will be severely affected but its likely your Gross train weight is above acceptable levels for brakes.. Hence type approval issues.

 

[flecc]

It's not necessarily any lack of power/torque for towing with electric vehicles it's a problem with type approval and an issue regarding associated systems coping with extra stress.
For example you average ICE tow vehicle will weigh around 1500 kg. Stick a ton behind it and your gross train weight is still within fairly safe limits for brakes, suspension etc...
Get that same vehicle in EV form and it will be around 500kg heavier. Yes, range will be severely affected but its likely your Gross train weight is above acceptable levels for brakes.. Hence type approval issues.

The range loss without a gearbox is the dominant factor though. To cope with the extremes of load variations, akin to towing, gearboxes already exist on some e-vans and will be in the forthcoming e-trucks.

Any brake deficiency can easily be overcome with higher regen modes increasing the motor braking. I have three regen/braking modes on my car and some have as many as five.
.

 

[Zlatan]

Can you tow with an electric car or a hybrid? | Autocar

EVs have graduated beyond second cars and many now have impressive hauling capabilities

www.autocar.co.uk

There are inherent current issues towing with EVs but none insurmountable.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

Not really comparable to a Ford Ka though for all round use, though ok for the supermarket run.
.

But I 8magine in a few years the range will have doubled. I see it will be sold as the freze froggy (not joking) from next year in EU. For €10k. That's a markup of €6k from the Chinese domestic price. Sometimes capitalism really doesnt work.

 

[flecc]

But I 8magine in a few years the range will have doubled. I see it will be sold as the freze froggy (not joking) from next year in EU. For €10k. That's a markup of €6k from the Chinese domestic price. Sometimes capitalism really doesnt work.

It will compete with the home grown Citroen Ami at around that price.
.

 

[Danidl]

Very true, there's no way any new car is justified if the existing one still does the job well. Only when replacement is due can it make sense. And on consumption grounds towing is out for e-cars, unless wastefully designed to a greater but unknown weight specification or a gearbox is added. I won't be surprised if e-cars spell the end for caravans, not before time in my view for one of the silliest of all mankind's inventions.
.

Nice one Flecc.. yes I got my taste for France from caravanning , but I was coming to the same conclusion anyway. We would be on the roads looking at streams and stream on coming caravans and wondering ...what are they coming from. ? What do they know we dont know about the place we are going to. . ? . My towhitch is now for the local dump,.. grass hedge clippings rtc.

 

[Danidl]

It's not necessarily any lack of power/torque for towing with electric vehicles it's a problem with type approval and an issue regarding associated systems coping with extra stress.
For example you average ICE tow vehicle will weigh around 1500 kg. Stick a ton behind it and your gross train weight is still within fairly safe limits for brakes, suspension etc...
Get that same vehicle in EV form and it will be around 500kg heavier. Yes, range will be severely affected but its likely your Gross train weight is above acceptable levels for brakes.. Hence type approval issues.

But you see it might not be as heavy ...if it were a hydrogen FC with a very small battery. The huge problem with a caravan is the parachute effect .. the wind resistance will play havoc with any estimate of range.

 

[wheeler]

The huge problem with a caravan is the parachute effect .. the wind resistance will play havoc with any estimate of range.

Better get one with a pointy front then.

 

[Zlatan]

But you see it might not be as heavy ...if it were a hydrogen FC with a very small battery. The huge problem with a caravan is the parachute effect .. the wind resistance will play havoc with any estimate of range.

Agreed. Having done lots of towing and on occasions with underpowered tow vehicle, the one issue you can't get around is a heavy load. Poor aerodynamics... Just go slow. No problem braking or hill starts or braking..
Being pushed down Alpine pass with 2 tonnes of boat behind is a sobering experience...
Completely irrelevant but years ago I used to tow ski boat with a Ford Escort mk3... Boat weighed at least 1200kg and trailer a further few hundred.. Folk would almost laugh when I went to slip way to pull boat out the lake.
The folk with big 4x4s the most.
I, d drop trailer into lake, daughter, about 14 at time, drive boat onto trailer. I, d clip it on, jump in car with expectant faces expecting disaster. I, d let car go back 2 or 3 feet, then stick my arm through window. Daughter would restart Nautique, stick it in gear and give boat half throttle. Boat would push the lot straight up slip way, by which time I, d be letting clutch in on Escort and daughter kill engine on boat.. All timed perfectly. Little old Escort pulling 1600kg up 1 in 4 slip.. Sort of..

 

[Zlatan]

Better get one with a pointy front then.

Or a very short one..

 

[jonathan.agnew]

Can you tow with an electric car or a hybrid? | Autocar

EVs have graduated beyond second cars and many now have impressive hauling capabilities

www.autocar.co.uk

There are inherent current issues towing with EVs but none insurmountable.

Yes, plenty of videos of tesla x towing on www (including 0 to 60 < 5s towing circa 2 ton), I imagine the flat torque curve of electric motors suit towing rather well. To pretend to be on topic, the way a hub motor ebike will take a generously proportioned 200kg person up a steep hill as well as a skinny waif. stating the obvious, but price is the problem, if it were similar to that on the Chinese domestic market we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

[flecc]

Agreed. Having done lots of towing and on occasions with underpowered tow vehicle, the one issue you can't get around is a heavy load. Poor aerodynamics... Just go slow. No problem braking or hill starts or braking..
Being pushed down Alpine pass with 2 tonnes of boat behind is a sobering experience...
Completely irrelevant but years ago I used to tow ski boat with a Ford Escort mk3... Boat weighed at least 1200kg and trailer a further few hundred.. Folk would almost laugh when I went to slip way to pull boat out the lake.
The folk with big 4x4s the most.
I, d drop trailer into lake, daughter, about 14 at time, drive boat onto trailer. I, d clip it on, jump in car with expectant faces expecting disaster. I, d let car go back 2 or 3 feet, then stick my arm through window. Daughter would restart Nautique, stick it in gear and give boat half throttle. Boat would push the lot straight up slip way, by which time I, d be letting clutch in on Escort and daughter kill engine on boat.. All timed perfectly. Little old Escort pulling 1600kg up 1 in 4 slip.. Sort of..

This one was heavy and very tall, but the 2.3 litre Victor company car made light work of it from London to Southampton, including the launch:

 

[Danidl]

Agreed. Having done lots of towing and on occasions with underpowered tow vehicle, the one issue you can't get around is a heavy load. Poor aerodynamics... Just go slow. No problem braking or hill starts or braking..
Being pushed down Alpine pass with 2 tonnes of boat behind is a sobering experience...
Completely irrelevant but years ago I used to tow ski boat with a Ford Escort mk3... Boat weighed at least 1200kg and trailer a further few hundred.. Folk would almost laugh when I went to slip way to pull boat out the lake.
The folk with big 4x4s the most.
I, d drop trailer into lake, daughter, about 14 at time, drive boat onto trailer. I, d clip it on, jump in car with expectant faces expecting disaster. I, d let car go back 2 or 3 feet, then stick my arm through window. Daughter would restart Nautique, stick it in gear and give boat half throttle. Boat would push the lot straight up slip way, by which time I, d be letting clutch in on Escort and daughter kill engine on boat.. All timed perfectly. Little old Escort pulling 1600kg up 1 in 4 slip.. Sort of..

I think we all have our tales ... Like bringing a caravan through Snowdonia in Wales but having the jockey wheel interfere with the automatic brake , so all the braking was due to the car ... . Or bringing the same caravan on the coast road between France and Spain , near Coillures, with the caravan being 8 ft wide and the Road about 15 ft, no parking places and no turning points. For some unknown reason I was not popular.
But the one that defeated me was towing a caravan up a hill in Wexford , Ireland. . My sister has a house on what seemed an ordinary hill , but the Renault 21 65KW engine just could not do it ... I had to reverse down the hill and a neighbour of hers let me park it there overnight. While the rest of the family had a grand party with my sister, I had to stay with the caravan, because I needed to keep maybe 5 thousand quid worth of pharmaceuticals , suitably refrigerated. .. one of the reasons we used the caravan. subsequent years with the same basic engine , but turbocharged, in a Scenic , at 96KW there was no problem.

 

[Zlatan]

I think we all have our tales ... Like bringing a caravan through Snowdonia in Wales but having the jockey wheel interfere with the automatic brake , so all the braking was due to the car ... . Or bringing the same caravan on the coast road between France and Spain , near Coillures, with the caravan being 8 ft wide and the Road about 15 ft, no parking places and no turning points. For some unknown reason I was not popular.
But the one that defeated me was towing a caravan up a hill in Wexford , Ireland. . My sister has a house on what seemed an ordinary hill , but the Renault 21 65KW engine just could not do it ... I had to reverse down the hill and a neighbour of hers let me park it there overnight. While the rest of the family had a grand party with my sister, I had to stay with the caravan, because I needed to keep maybe 5 thousand quid worth of pharmaceuticals , suitably refrigerated. .. one of the reasons we used the caravan. subsequent years with the same basic engine , but turbocharged, in a Scenic , at 96KW there was no problem.

One of our worst (not me driving or my car), Towing a boat around Paris on Periphique approaching rush hour... Mate driving, me half asleep, he says (as we slow down)
"Oh bog, that's our trailer wheel that just overtook us, and not the spare one".

Flecc, one of best tow cars I ever had (for road towing, not up slip ways) was 2 litre Vauxhall Carlton. Couldn't fault it. Easy out climb Nissan Patrol on steep road hills. (well down on power but well down on weight too) Was a great tow car. Nice and big for stability, light ish and big brakes.

Meanwhile back in the funny farm..

Matt Hancock: an ambitious operator who ‘knows which levers to pull’

Allegations by Dominic Cummings that minister lied to PM and public seem to have backfired

www.theguardian.com

And the Guardian getting desperate in a bid to explain Boris' improved poll rating this week.

A dangerous cult now runs Britain – the worshippers at the Temple of Johnson | Marina Hyde

No matter what the prime minister does, no matter the consequences, his devotees line up to heatedly excuse it, says Guardian columnist Marina Hyde

www.theguardian.com

Apparently he, s a svengali,a cult leader...
Nope, the problem dear Guardian is there is no fecker else.
Not to mention the, normal for the Guardian, pretentious stand both it and its readers adopt. If you don't agree with our narrative you must be brain washed. It's exactly that stance that pushes folk to Johnson.
Folk are attracted to Tories at the moment in defiance of all the woke, preaching and know it all attitudes as such as the Guardian. Being wrong or right is almost irrelevant. It's against an attitude. It seeded Brexit, it removed us from EU and its kept Boris in power. (Tories would be there anyway, there really isn't an alternative at the moment)
Guardian and many just don't get it. Folk are not supporting Boris, they are rebelling against the alternatives.

 

[oldgroaner]

One of our worst (not me driving or my car), Towing a boat around Paris on Periphique approaching rush hour... Mate driving, me half asleep, he says (as we slow down)
"Oh bog, that's our trailer wheel that just overtook us, and not the spare one".

Flecc, one of best tow cars I ever had (for road towing, not up slip ways) was 2 litre Vauxhall Carlton. Couldn't fault it. Easy out climb Nissan Patrol on steep road hills. (well down on power but well down on weight too) Was a great tow car. Nice and big for stability, light ish and big brakes.

Meanwhile back in the funny farm..

Matt Hancock: an ambitious operator who ‘knows which levers to pull’

Allegations by Dominic Cummings that minister lied to PM and public seem to have backfired

www.theguardian.com

And the Guardian getting desperate in a bid to explain Boris' improved poll rating this week.

A dangerous cult now runs Britain – the worshippers at the Temple of Johnson | Marina Hyde

No matter what the prime minister does, no matter the consequences, his devotees line up to heatedly excuse it, says Guardian columnist Marina Hyde

www.theguardian.com

Apparently he, s a svengali,a cult leader...
Nope, the problem dear Guardian is there is no fecker else.
Not to mention the, normal for the Guardian, pretentious stand both it and its readers adopt. If you don't agree with our narrative you must be brain washed. It's exactly that stance that pushes folk to Johnson.
Folk are attracted to Tories at the moment in defiance of all the woke, preaching and know it all attitudes as such as the Guardian. Being wrong or right is almost irrelevant. It's against an attitude. It seeded Brexit, it removed us from EU and its kept Boris in power. (Tories would be there anyway, there really isn't an alternative at the moment)
Guardian and many just don't get it. Folk are not supporting Boris, they are rebelling against the alternatives.

The problem isn't that as you put it "There's no fecker else"
It's that "no fecker else has the media attacking everyone else of the 65 million other choices.
No one else gets even a ghost of a chance

 

[Zlatan]

The problem isn't that as you put it "There's no fecker else"
It's that "no fecker else has the media attacking everyone else of the 65 million other choices.
No one else gets even a ghost of a chance

There's plenty attacking Boris and Hancock or haven't you read papers last few weeks. Keep telling you but you don't want to listen.. Media has little affect nowadays, social media perhaps has power but traditional very little. Throughout pandemic most media have been against Govt and last couple of weeks more so than ever. And what happens? Boris goes up on polls.
Problem isn't media at all. That's just the excuse and reason for others to not try and change. Old hat now OG. Blame media, blame Tories for cheating blame anyone but don't look at yourselves.
Guardian' narrative of blaming others is typified today by this Guardian actually blaming electorate sums it up.
Its the Tories, Its Boris, Its Media, Its the electorate. Actually no. Its the alternative, woke, know it all condescending attitude as such as author of article in Guardian. Telling people they are wrong doesn't work OG. It only hardens their opinions and polarises results of polls and elections.
And until we all learn to stop blaming others and look at what is really going on and what people actually want we, ve got Tories.

 

[oyster]

Apparently he, s a svengali,a cult leader...

A typo, or two, there...

 

[Zlatan]

A typo, or two, there...

Agreed..

 

[flecc]

Flecc, one of best tow cars I ever had (for road towing, not up slip ways) was 2 litre Vauxhall Carlton. Couldn't fault it. Easy out climb Nissan Patrol on steep road hills. (well down on power but well down on weight too) Was a great tow car. Nice and big for stability, light ish and big brakes.

Agreed, Vauxhall really knew how to make towing cars back then. I had two of those Victor 2.3 litres in a row, then followed by a Carlton in 1979/80, all towing mine and others boats like that neighbour's yacht with ease.

Something not widely known was that the Carlton was released in October 1978 to celebrate 75 years of car making in Luton, their first car being built there in 1903, the tiller steered one in front. They even had grooves on the edges of the bonnet back then, like the flutes on later cars!

 

[Zlatan]

Agreed, Vauxhall really knew how to make towing cars back then. I had two of those Victor 2.3 litres in a row, then followed by a Carlton in 1979/80, all towing mine and others boats like that neighbour's yacht with ease.

Something not widely known was that the Carlton was released in October 1978 to celebrate 75 years of car making in Luton, their first car being built there in 1903, the tiller steered one in front. They even had grooves on the edges of the bonnet back then, like the flutes on later cars!

View attachment 42703

Didn't know that but Carlton was a fantastic car... .. I had 2 of them, both 2 litre and both over 150k on same clutch/engine/box even with 50k or so towing miles on each..
I, d have loved a Lotus one...