Brexit, for once some facts.

[Danidl]

No Danidl, that is not their personal behaviour I'm speaking of, that is simply their "working" from home or just being laid off, meaning they are not commuting on the underground. Same for the buses.

After all, nobody in their right mind is going to spend all that time off work in the weeks of marvellous weather we've been having, travelling in the underground.

It's what the 90% have been doing when not in the underground you've conveniently ignored, so please stop wrongly guessing about what is happening under my nose here.

The rates of infection are currently much lower because we took a very big double size hit at first, a simple matter of sooner or later for the more vulnerable in our crowded city. You really are a very slow learner.
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Flecc, Your position on this is not logical.
If they are not going on the underground.
If they are working from home
If they have been furloughed
If they are not going to theatres or football stadia or pubs
Then they are whether voluntarily or otherwise removing themselves from potential zones of infection. The fact that small groups are a bit closer than optimal while going down footpaths is very small beer. You cannot be infected without coming into contact with infected people.
Whether you explicitly say it or not ,your argument is that all or a majority of the vulnerable in London are already culled, ..so that is a variation on the herd immunity argument. There is no evidence to support that.
If and when the numbers on the underground recover to their pre CV19 levels .and or the pubs reopen and commerce and sports and the economy rebounds, then the London numbers will accelerate. Hopefully the death rate will not accelerate as badly, as the treatment options are improving.

 

[Woosh]

If and when the numbers on the underground recover to their pre CV19 levels .and or the pubs reopen and commerce and sports and the economy rebounds, then the London numbers will accelerate.

there is a residual value of Covid education in the last 3 months.
People will retain a few precautions: not touching their eyes, nose, mouth before washing their hands first, wear some face covering, avoid large, busy shops, avoid handling cash, distancing whenever possible etc..
This said, I went to my local supermarket (sainsbury's) yesterday. The queueing has become a token, people got waved through, not many wearing face masks, people bunching at the exit to the car park. They definitely let in 30%-50% more customers compared to the previous 2-3 months.

 

[flecc]

If and when the numbers on the underground recover to their pre CV19 levels .and or the pubs reopen and commerce and sports and the economy rebounds, then the London numbers will accelerate. Hopefully the death rate will not accelerate as badly, as the treatment options are improving.

Far more logical than your position, missing what the 90% were doing. Once again you make your silly assumptions from afar. When speaking of Londoner's behaviour I'm not just speaking of momentarily passing which is as you say relatively unimportant. I'm speaking of people completely ignoring the lockdown rules throughout in such as these ways:

Continuing to visit and even stay in each others homes.

Families, often with children, freely mixing in groups in each others homes and gardens.

Many travelling longer distances to do that and more.

People continuing to join up with their friends, going out together including in large close groups.

Numerous small businesses quietly continuing to operate against the law with customers and staff freely mixing and no lockdown facilities or practices.

London as you know is a large number of "villages", so we know who those businesses are and how to access them, as I've done myself.

Our self employed mostly completely ignoring all the Covid-19 measures and having no difficulty in finding customers equally willing to ignore the law to get their jobs done. I've been one of those customers for three lots of self employed tradesmen.

The Met Police soon giving up on enforcement after being humiliated in the media by being completely ignored by openly defiant large numbers of Londoners. In the plaintive words of one police officer to a TV reporter, "What can we do, they're completely ignoring us?"

One measure of compliance is that when I've met others I haven't met for a little while I've asked with a smile, "How are you coping with lockdown?" The response is always a sardonic laugh, indicating only too clearly they think it's a joke and treat it that way.

If and when our death rate increases, it will not accelerate as quickly. Not just due to possible treatments but due to the double hit we've already had. Vulnerable people cannot die twice.
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[flecc]

They'll pay a little later for their lack of a strategy.

Sweden has just announced that their policy of not closing any schools has paid off.

It has not caused any rise in infections and teachers show no greater infection rate than the rest of their population.

So that is just one way in which we could have avoided an immensely damaging policy. Closing our schools had not only damaged children's education and seriously disrupted the examinations system, it's also prevented many parents from continuing to work, this greatly increasing benefits costs.

I confidently expect more news in this vein in future.
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[Wicky]

Sweden's coronavirus death toll tops 5,000
The number of people with coronavirus who have died in Sweden has now reached 5,041, health officials have announced.
With a population of just over 10 million, Sweden has had a heavier toll compared to its neighbours and has been closely watched owing to its controversial decision not to impose a strict lockdown.
Early this month, the man behind the policy, Anders Tegnell, acknowledged that the approach had resulted in too many deaths.

 

[Woosh]

Sweden has just announced that their policy of not closing any schools has paid off.

It has not caused any rise in infections and teachers show no greater infection rate than the rest of their population.

So that is just one way in which we could have avoided an immensely damaging policy. Closing our schools had not only damaged children's education and seriously disrupted the examinations system, it's also prevented many parents from continuing to work, this greatly increasing benefits costs.

I confidently expect more news in this vein in future.
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Sweden avoided the high cost of lockdown until now.
But...
9 out of 10 Swedes are still susceptible to catch Covid and a second wave is more likely with a high level of active cases (40k for 10 millions Swedes) .
If and when the second wave hits them this winter, I think the Swedes are going to have lockdown.

 

[RossG]

I think it's human nature as much as anything that many will see the area they live in as doing well thank you very much, you have chosen to live in a certain place so you are unlikely to talk it down.
I judge how well a place has done by how many succumbed to the virus, and it's quite clear several of the big cities have come out badly due to crowding.
You can jiggle figures all day long and give reasons for any scenario but end of day it's bodies on the slab that really matter putting it bluntly.

 

[vfr400]

Have you seen the petition to close down the Guardian? The Guardian was founded with money from exploitation of slaves working in the cotton industry and they supported the confederate army to keep slavery going. They're a bunch of imperialistic, white-priveliged, hypocritical bar stewards. Who's going to sign it?

 

[flecc]

Sweden avoided the high cost of lockdown until now.
But...
9 out of 10 Swedes are still susceptible to catch Covid and a second wave is more likely with a high level of active cases (40k for 10 millions Swedes) .
If and when the second wave hits them this winter, I think the Swedes are going to have lockdown.

We'll see, but meanwhile we could have avoided the very damaging closing of schools.

The amount of mixing together of various families and their children in each others homes and gardens during not observing the rules must have caused some additional viral spread. Equally the large groups of teens in social gatherings that many of us have commented on must have done some harm. But if these are not true, it indicates that the extent of lockdown wasn't necessary

Ergo, worse than all the children remaining in school as Sweden has observed.
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[flecc]

Have you seen the petition to close down the Guardian? The Guardian was founded with money from exploitation of slaves working in the cotton industry and they supported the confederate army to keep slavery going. They're a bunch of imperialistic, white-priveliged, hypocritical bar stewards. Who's going to sign it?

Mostly true for the whole of Britain, the foundations of our modern world were financed by slavery.

So a petition to shut down our country and hand it to someone else to run it would be more appropriate. The EU perhaps?
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[Woosh]

Have you seen the petition to close down the Guardian? The Guardian was founded with money from exploitation of slaves working in the cotton industry and they supported the confederate army to keep slavery going. They're a bunch of imperialistic, white-priveliged, hypocritical bar stewards. Who's going to sign it?

you could have replaced the title with half a dozen other broadsheet titles.
one could argue that modern capitalism operates along the same line as slavery.
The system locks people into some 30 years mortgage and there is no way out but to go to work every day to keep 'your' house/capital/investment or whatever you want to call that lump around your neck but you actually work for them.
We only borrowed £17k to buy our first house. The first thing I did back in the 80s was to pay off my mortgage. My children now borrow 10-20 times that amount.

 

[flecc]

The first thing I did back in the 80s was to pay off my mortgage.

Ditto with two mortgages, the bungalow I bought for my parents in 1961 and the flat I bought for myself in 1967. Both cleared very long before their mortgage terms were up.

Left me with a long comfortable run up to the very early retirement I'd promised myself since I was 16 years old, and the value of the bungalow in due course to make my retirement even more comfortable.

Rents and mortgages are terrible traps, buying and paying off very quickly by some early personal austerity are always the best bet.
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[Danidl]

Ditto with two mortgages, the bungalow I bought for my parents in 1961 and the flat I bought for myself in 1967. Both cleared very long before their mortgage terms were up.

Left me with a long comfortable run up to the very early retirement I'd promised myself since I was 16 years old, and the value of the bungalow in due course to make my retirement even more comfortable.

Rents and mortgages are terrible traps, buying and paying off very quickly by some early personal austerity are always the best bet.
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Yes .. but. Its much better for the individual to take the pain and the austerity in the short term, but not for the economy. The economy thrives on personal debt. It is better for the economy for a person to buy overpriced white bread pap in a supermarket than go and bake their own wholesome Wholegrain from flour at home.

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

We'll see, but meanwhile we could have avoided the very damaging closing of schools.

The amount of mixing together of various families and their children in each others homes and gardens during not observing the rules must have caused some additional viral spread. Equally the large groups of teens in social gatherings that many of us have commented on must have done some harm. But if these are not true, it indicates that the extent of lockdown wasn't necessary

Ergo, worse than all the children remaining in school as Sweden has observed.
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It’s not really the children mixing together, contracting symptomless Coronavirus, taking it home and killing their grandparents I’m bothered about. If the family unit is that irresistible, then that’s their lookout. They were warned. It’s the children passing it on to teachers that is of concern. It’s beyond teacher’s control, so they have a right to protect themselves.

If I was a teacher, I would resist teaching the reckless little bastards, they’ve behaved shamefully over the past 10 weeks.

 

[flecc]

It’s the children passing it on to teachers that is of concern.

But Sweden has shown that is not true. With all schools open normally throughout the whole Covid-19 period, their teachers infection rate is identical to the rest of the population, so no loss due to continuing to teach.
.

 

[Barry Shittpeas]

Ditto with two mortgages, the bungalow I bought for my parents in 1961 and the flat I bought for myself in 1967. Both cleared very long before their mortgage terms were up.

Left me with a long comfortable run up to the very early retirement I'd promised myself since I was 16 years old, and the value of the bungalow in due course to make my retirement even more comfortable.

Rents and mortgages are terrible traps, buying and paying off very quickly by some early personal austerity are always the best bet.
.

Pretty much the same. With banks paying appalling interest rates, about 20 years ago I started investing in property. I’ve always bought the houses, never on a mortgage. I’ve mainly let the houses and built a few to rent and sell.

At the moment, the rental market is going crazy. I had a tenant tell me he was leaving at the end of June, so I’ve advertised the house with a 10% increase in rent and had 27 viewing books within 24 hours, and 5 people wanting to take in on within 48 hours. Should have a Polish lady moving in on 08 July.

I think housing prices will collapse pretty soon, but I’ve been investigating long enough to take a big hit, it doesn’t bother me. I think the rental market will strengthen though, which is a bad sign for society.

 

[flecc]

Yes .. but. Its much better for the individual to take the pain and the austerity in the short term, but not for the economy. The economy thrives on personal debt. It is better for the economy for a person to buy overpriced white bread pap in a supermarket than go and bake their own wholesome Wholegrain from flour at home.

Indeed, and this is a variation on what Woosh was saying.

In crude terms it's Us or Them, since the main beneficiaries of a thriving economy are "Them", the property owning and investors.
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[vfr400]

you could have replaced the title with half a dozen other broadsheet titles.
one could argue that modern capitalism operates along the same line as slavery.
The system locks people into some 30 years mortgage and there is no way out but to go to work every day to keep 'your' house/capital/investment or whatever you want to call that lump around your neck but you actually work for them.
We only borrowed £17k to buy our first house. The first thing I did back in the 80s was to pay off my mortgage. My children now borrow 10-20 times that amount.

Are you saying that slavery and black lives don't matter? If the twitterati or leftwaffe hear that, your business will be toast. If you don't specifically denounce these things, you're deemed to be a supporter.

 

[Woosh]

Are you saying that slavery and black lives don't matter? If the twitterati or leftwaffe hear that, your business will be toast. If you don't specifically denounce these things, you're deemed to be a supporter.

no, I didn't say that. They do - however, we live in a very much international world, the segregation between skin colours is much less than how rich your family is or which private school you were educated at.
The issues of stereotyping by the police (stop & search) for example wouldn't affect you if you live in a detached house in the Cotsworld or drive a Volvo Estate regardless of the colour of your skin.

 

[oyster]

Also noticed an article the other day about the possibility of a sodium-based cell. Not as in sodium-sulphur or whatever, but close to a direct replacement for lithium. If it does come into being, cost should plummet as there is quite a bit of available sodium.

Think this was the article:

Boffins step into the Li-ion's den with sodium-ion battery that's potentially as good as a lithium cousin

Electrolyte breakthrough preserves charge capacity

www.theregister.com

As always, they are just around the corner until either they disappear or become the dominant product.