Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
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Sweden's herd immunity strategy hasn't worked out...
www.bmj.com
Has Sweden’s controversial covid-19 strategy been successful?
Sweden has stood out in the global pandemic by eschewing lockdown and seemingly aiming for herd immunity. Heba Habib reports that Sweden’s public was supportive of the strategy, but is now paying a heavy price. For months Swedish public health authorities have defended their controversial...
www.bmj.com
I met Jimmy Savile twice but luckily got away with it on both occasions. I seem to remember he had a Rolls Royce that was red I think and the radiator real gold, wonder where it went.
I think this whole "What's best" argument regarding lock downs will run and run for a long time to come.
Many countries are claiming they fared better because of blah, blah whatever and they did right. Then the medics & scientists in that country come out of the woodwork at last and admit they acted wrong ... inc Sweden.
Unless you take the Chinese approach and use an iron fist you'll have big losses of life. All that said I would still say if and when it comes round again it will be an early lockdown, like it or lump it and sod the economy.
Remember my old saying > Two mtrs apart or two mtrs under...your choice <
I think this whole "What's best" argument regarding lock downs will run and run for a long time to come.
Many countries are claiming they fared better because of blah, blah whatever and they did right. Then the medics & scientists in that country come out of the woodwork at last and admit they acted wrong ... inc Sweden.
Unless you take the Chinese approach and use an iron fist you'll have big losses of life. All that said I would still say if and when it comes round again it will be an early lockdown, like it or lump it and sod the economy.
Remember my old saying > Two mtrs apart or two mtrs under...your choice <
government (dept of education, Gavin Williamson) has agreed with Rushford this afternoon.
it will never work in the West, people are not prepared for the kind of death toll that a herd immunity strategy will inevitably cause.
And he's not alone, Johnson as well. Of course they like to tag onto the publically popular of the moment, it's what they always do, but it doesn't necessarily mean a gong.
We'll see in the New Year list.
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Johnson has just called that new drug, Death-Methasone. 
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Herd immunity supposedly takes 18 months or so achieve any sort of success and wipes out a fair chunk of the population during that time.
Of course they got more deaths, they nor I ever claimed otherwise, nor did they make any herd immunity claims. Those are all by other countries, organisations and individuals.
It was and is as I've consistently posted, a simple balance of losses and gains, death and sickness against economic costs. All the critics are only looking at the minus side of Covid and ignoring that Sweden and their citizens haven't had their economies wrecked.
Not for them the desperate scramble of the UK government now in trying to get everyone back to work, unwise cost cutting moves like the current Foreign Office one and trying to resist the costs of Summer school meals.
Remember, despite all our enormously damaging measures for the economy and the heavy handed use of the law, we still have one of the world's highest death rates from Covid-19.
In other words, the worst of both worlds.
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Flecc, Economics is just about money..bits of paper and promises to pay in a future. It is not about life. If anything the last 3 months has shown how useless much of the effort spent is on purchasing irrelevant things for spurious purposes.
Now the British Police did not have a heavy handed use of the law .. far from it. We have People back from Spain, and Saudi and they will tell you about heavy handed policing.
All irrelevant to what I've been posting and completely missing the point.
Your simplistic view of economics ignores the very real and sometimes lasting damage done to peoples lives by our measures. The economy versus Covid, personal and national, is very much about a balance of loss, one form against another, and we've engaged in that judgement just as much as Sweden
We all have our view on where that balance should be and your lectures about things I know at least as well as you won't alter mine one iota.
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Half-expected him to call it Dexy's "Show Me - Soon". But that would actually require him to know and, to some extent, understand a teeny bit of popular culture.Johnson has just called that new drug, Death-Methasone.
But you must remember that here in the U.K. we have a disproportionately higher number of ******* idiots walking amongst us than in other countries. For example, when the news of this respiratory virus started to emerge, our population panic bought toilet tissue and set fire to telecommunications infrastructure. In ”normal” times, they will assault each other, sometimes with mallets or other carpentry tools, in order to better their chances of buying a 32” Blaupunkt television from a grocery store. This is what we are dealing with.
My relatives in Italy can’t believe they way people are behaving here, they watch in horror. We have achieved the worst death rate WITH some sort of lockdown, I don’t like to think what it would have been like if people had been asked to take their own precautions.
Because it was entirely the wrong sort of lockdown as I and some notable others have said. We could easily have had a better overall outcome with a different approach, but remember that by overall, I'm referring to the whole balance of economy and sickness, not just the latter.
You are quite right about the people we are dealing with, which is precisely why going at them with a stick is completely the wrong way to get their co-operation. The only weapon needed is fear of the disease and giving them something else to fight against instead is foolish, deflecting their attention.
Being led by fools doesn't help either.
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Sampling of antibodies in Sweden shows that much less than 10% has antibodies. To achieve herd immunity for a virus as dangerous as Covid19, they need 10 times that.
Imagine the UK were to pursue the same strategy, we'd be talking about deaths of half a million people with co-morbidity.
None of us is prepared for that.
The greater density of idiots, unfortunately, seem not to walk among us. Well, some only on occasional visits to Barnard Castle, etc., and others to see newly painted aircraft.
(The advantage of a red, white and blue colour scheme is that it can be hired out to so many other countries. France, USA, Australia, Chile, etc.)
Once again neither I nor the Swedish government have mentioned herd immunity as a target, indeed I've twice dismissed it.
I don't agree with the inevitability of your conclusion and still you only speak of one side of the balance. There's two sides, and our poor Covid outcome plus huge economic damage don't commend the balance we've struck.
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