The financial markets also have a clear view as to whether we or the eu will suffer most (the pound is being sold off). In some ways a hard brexit is preferable ( it will produce the kind of aversive conditioning necessary to penetrate a typical leave voter's consciousness)
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
I think everything that you say and predict in your post is true, and it will happen.
I had always associated that determined, religious faith style desire to press on and believe, regardless of evidence to the contrary, with left wing political nutters. Brexit has become no different. It’s now bears absolutely no resemblance to the thing it was presented as pre-referendum. Evidence that it might not be a good idea is everywhere, but still we cling to this hope that somehow, by some fluke, we might defy the odds and that thousands won’t suffer the misery of job loss, zero-hours contract re-deployment into “battery-hen” warehouse conditions earning just above minimum wage.
It’s such a massive gamble and still don’t know what the winner collects.
Last edited:
I can see where you're coming from. But I do not think leave voters are - uniformly - that thick. I know many who are ambivalent about having voted leave, think like some here it was a mistake. They're, fortunately, not all tommy Robinsons. I think a tory government that blames everyone else will lose the next election and usher in a labour/Libdem coalition that will start the process of rejoining the eu.
If that happens and we do leave by literally tearing ourselves away in a disorderly fashion, any attempt to re-join will probably be equality brutal. By that, I mean it’s likely we will need to join the Euro. By the end of the leaving and rejoining cycle, I reckon we will each be about 30% worse off than we were at the beginning of the Brexit/ rejoining process. We will be lucky to get 1Euro for each of our pounds.
Summit Fever - if Brexit is a mountain (see also 'go fever' / 'launch fever')
Summit Fever and How to Avoid It
I feel there a few good rules that can be put in place to avoid potential catastrophes. It is often the collective result of many choices and decisions and failing to have systems, guidelines and rules in place to prevent faulty thinking.
The most important step is to outline the group objective. This can hard to do when the group are your friends, but heading into objective hazards territory is serious stuff. Take the time and discuss it.
Rather than making the goal the summit, it should be this:
‘Everyone comes back safe’ (We already lost Cameron, May, Davies, Raab, Robbins, Jones, Anelay & Callanan ...)
And to achieve that goal, these are important steps:
Setting the Rules
Group Communication
Following the above steps can make the difference in many cases. Just having turnaround times and sticking to them will keep you alive. And above all, try to see the trip as an experience, whether you make it to the top or not.
Summit Fever and How to Avoid It
I feel there a few good rules that can be put in place to avoid potential catastrophes. It is often the collective result of many choices and decisions and failing to have systems, guidelines and rules in place to prevent faulty thinking.
The most important step is to outline the group objective. This can hard to do when the group are your friends, but heading into objective hazards territory is serious stuff. Take the time and discuss it.
Rather than making the goal the summit, it should be this:
‘Everyone comes back safe’ (We already lost Cameron, May, Davies, Raab, Robbins, Jones, Anelay & Callanan ...)
And to achieve that goal, these are important steps:
Setting the Rules
- Turn around times, weather, group ability, gear, supplies and hazards are ALL noted and accounted for. This means having a set plan in place, even if it’s just brief, to outline what the next course of action is when a variable changes.
- A designated leader. One person should always take charge and direct the conversations. More on this down below.
Group Communication
- Honesty about all hazards. If you spot or think something isn’t right, persist until you have a good answer from everyone. Don’t ignore the hazards or play them down. If one person is unsure, explain why it is or isn’t ok to continue. Don’t judge members of the team if they are scared. Discuss the issues.
- Decisions made as a group. All decisions should be made as a group involving even the most inexperienced person. Why? Because a common trap is to rely on one person to make decisions. See the section below on the common traps.
- A good leader doesn’t make all the decisions, they guide the group into making them. A leader should suggest and help the team get together and address issues.
- A good leader brings up the hard topics like turning around or calling it quits. Saying what no one wants to hear can be hard but a good leader needs to do it. People can be proud and refuse to say they need help or aren’t happy with how things are going when the goal is so close.
- A good leader should be equally skilled and experienced enough to recognise all the traps of faulty decision making and also be aware of what is involved in the trip. Having the experience to deal with all this is important. Good communication skills and reading the team dynamics is key.
- Separating the group. Never a good idea. Abilities should be matched BEFORE the trip begins.
- Never getting a chance again. The weather is good or the cost too high, so making the call can be tough but in the end the mountains will still be there. The chance WILL come again. Enjoy the experience as it is.
- Following the leader. Never assume everything is safe or ok by just following along. The outdoors demands respect and everyone is part of the team. The leader should likewise encourage contribution from each member.
- Tunnel vision. A focus on the goal narrowing out all the dangers will only end badly.
Following the above steps can make the difference in many cases. Just having turnaround times and sticking to them will keep you alive. And above all, try to see the trip as an experience, whether you make it to the top or not.
Last edited:
I agree, that is the journey the leave vote has sent us on . Which is why many remainers are quite upset.
I must confess that I do wonder why I persist in try to get past your Brexit goggles
Unfortunately for us all Bojo is guided and haunted by the shade of Spike Milligan, and can only remember one quote of the MaestroSummit Fever - if Brexit is a mountain (see also 'go fever' / 'launch fever')
Summit Fever and How to Avoid It
I feel there a few good rules that can be put in place to avoid potential catastrophes. It is often the collective result of many choices and decisions and failing to have systems, guidelines and rules in place to prevent faulty thinking.
The most important step is to outline the group objective. This can hard to do when the group are your friends, but heading into objective hazards territory is serious stuff. Take the time and discuss it.
Rather than making the goal the summit, it should be this:
‘Everyone comes back safe’ (We already lost Cameron, May, Davies, Raab, Robbins, Jones, Anelay & Callanan ...)
And to achieve that goal, these are important steps:
Setting the Rules
- Turn around times, weather, group ability, gear, supplies and hazards are ALL noted and accounted for. This means having a set plan in place, even if it’s just brief, to outline what the next course of action is when a variable changes.
- A designated leader. One person should always take charge and direct the conversations. More on this down below.
Group Communication
Leaders
- Honesty about all hazards. If you spot or think something isn’t right, persist until you have a good answer from everyone. Don’t ignore the hazards or play them down. If one person is unsure, explain why it is or isn’t ok to continue. Don’t judge members of the team if they are scared. Discuss the issues.
- Decisions made as a group. All decisions should be made as a group involving even the most inexperienced person. Why? Because a common trap is to rely on one person to make decisions. See the section below on the common traps.
Avoiding the Traps of Faulty Decision Making
- A good leader doesn’t make all the decisions, they guide the group into making them. A leader should suggest and help the team get together and address issues.
- A good leader brings up the hard topics like turning around or calling it quits. Saying what no one wants to hear can be hard but a good leader needs to do it. People can be proud and refuse to say they need help or aren’t happy with how things are going when the goal is so close.
- A good leader should be equally skilled and experienced enough to recognise all the traps of faulty decision making and also be aware of what is involved in the trip. Having the experience to deal with all this is important. Good communication skills and reading the team dynamics is key.
- Separating the group. Never a good idea. Abilities should be matched BEFORE the trip begins.
- Never getting a chance again. The weather is good or the cost too high, so making the call can be tough but in the end the mountains will still be there. The chance WILL come again. Enjoy the experience as it is.
- Following the leader. Never assume everything is safe or ok by just following along. The outdoors demands respect and everyone is part of the team. The leader should likewise encourage contribution from each member.
- Tunnel vision. A focus on the goal narrowing out all the dangers will only end badly.
Following the above steps can make the difference in many cases. Just having turnaround times and sticking to them will keep you alive. And above all, try to see the trip as an experience, whether you make it to the top or not.
Sadly it is this one....
We haven't got a plan, so nothing can go wrong!
They tore up our childrens future to live in a mythical past, without any clue as to what it actually was, not realising how far we have dragged ourselves up from the gutter.
For anyone who wasn't rich, there was NO glorious past.
I must confess that I do wonder why I persist in try to get past your Brexit goggles
Think you've heard all you can possibly bear to about Brexit? Well, if the Telegraph's recent report of a £100m ad campaign preparing us for No Deal is accurate, you've not heard anything yet.
£100m between now and October 31st is more than twice what massive international conglomerate Procter & Gamble will spend on UK advertising over the same period. So imagine every advert you're expecting to see for Ariel, Lenor, Flash, Fairy Liquid, Swiffers, Febreeze, Daz, Pantene, Vidal Sassoon, Head & Shoulders, Always, Tampax and dozens of their other products.
Then double it.
That's what we've got in store.
From Popbitch in case Gerald starts whining.
£100m between now and October 31st is more than twice what massive international conglomerate Procter & Gamble will spend on UK advertising over the same period. So imagine every advert you're expecting to see for Ariel, Lenor, Flash, Fairy Liquid, Swiffers, Febreeze, Daz, Pantene, Vidal Sassoon, Head & Shoulders, Always, Tampax and dozens of their other products.
Then double it.
That's what we've got in store.
From Popbitch in case Gerald starts whining.
Good. They can spend almost as much as they like if it educates the public on the reality of a no-deal situation. Money well worth spending.
If you think Dominic Cummings is not - at this very moment - implementing a TOTAL CONTROL plan. Then you are sorely mistaken. That man never goes anywhere without a plan. There is a plan. You can think anything you like but don't think those guys don't have a plan. And this time boys and girls - they are not going to tell you (and the opposition) about it. Cummings job - in part - is to cut out the leaks. T. May was utterly hopeless in that department.
But no plan? OG - no - just no.
Always about money for you huh?
Brexit was not about the money for us that voted for it. We knew in the short term we'd be worse off. But you remainers are so obsessed with cash! As if money can make you happy! Ha. You have much to learn.
I've always been strongly in favour of us joining the eurozone and parity of the pound with the euro at joining won't necessarily be bad. In fact I think it would be good.
That's because the euro would leap in value if the strength of the pound was added to it. And that might not be the only increase in value, since with the pound merged in, Sweden could well join as well, adding the strength of the krona.
Despite all the efforts of speculators to bring down the euro since its inception, it's defied predictions and has done rather well. If the UK and Sweden had joined long ago, the euro would have done far better and been an even more important world currency than it already is.
.
You're the one who were in favour of tax havens. Which is largely what Brexit is about. And getting rid of employee and consumer protection and human rights. Keeping this is what remaining in the eu is about for me.
Can one not simply replace the word No Deal with the more obvious Crashout?. No Deal is putting a gloss onto a really dangerous concept. People not unreasonably think that No Deal means "steady as she goes" , no change, no extra deal ..It doesn't!!!.