Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

@ Oldgroaner Based on your photo and name I would have had you pegged as someone who can actually remember the world before... and as we joined the EU?
All the quotas, bans, levis etc that were imposed on us the moment we joined... We were not a country in dire straights at the time of joining it just seemed like a promising coalition.
However it turned into us becoming a cash cow for the rest of europe.

No point arguing around the in/out part now... We made that bed!

Let's go down the HSE mad EU route... Changing a £2 friggin light bulb at work, down the common sense route i could safely change a lightbulb using a stepladder. It would take 5 mins and cost maybe £15 total...
Now i'm not allowed to use a stepladder, so we have to hire in access equipt... that's now a cost of £500 for a days hire of a cherry picker, £200 for a harness, £400 for training to use the cherry picker, instead of taking 5 mins now takes 3 weeks of planning, risk assessments closes an entire section of warehouse for 1/2 a day and now costs the best part of £1200 (for a £2 light bulb) And you need ask why prices are spiraling astronomically?
I'm all for HSE, i wanna go home at the end of the day same as everyone else, but there has to be a balance!

You wanna talk people having a choice... let's go down the trade deal routes!
We already have a choice (mostly) on what we can buy in a supermarket, organic, non organic, full sugar, no sugar loaded with nasty sweeteners (just a few years ago were all giving us cancer, i see that's forgotten about) etc.

Yes that's right i'm one of the minority that no one accepts exists... I am hypersensitive to sweeteners and anything that contains a considerable amount tastes like someone is trying to roofie me with Disprol! Not so thirst quenching

So what's the big F'ing deal with GM foods... they will sit on a shelf at a supermarket and we (the consumer) can CHOOSE to buy it or leave it on a shelf!
Jump in there with a trade deal from the far East and Bam... we can buy battery packs for a reasonable price and pedelec our way around the whole country now at an affordable price not an insane price hike.

Yea there are gonna be some harder times ahead whilst we get on our feet again. Like the first time you move away from your parents, but you knuckle down and move on.
What did do when a tv broke down... we called the repair man and they came and fixed it heck, it must be 20 years since i last saw a tv repair shop on the high street now!
We have farming, that had always produced a staggering excess for export (until the EU quotas) and what about the great UK industries that were slowly priced out.
You want quality steel the world went to Sheffield not Unit 2 Yangdong way, chun-lee province, Obscure ville China...
You wanted a big ass boat, you went to the Clyde or the Tyne.

All of these industries went the way of the Dodo as a result of levis imposed and cheaper products coming through the EU.
This is a result of the EUs own doing, 30 years of being promised an equal share to a vision and instead getting the whipping boys deal. Our own government made the mistake of thinking that the people forgot this over the last 40ish years.

First, welcome to the thread, though that first paragraph is essentially incorrect
"
All the quotas, bans, levis etc that were imposed on us the moment we joined... We were not a country in dire straights at the time of joining it just seemed like a promising coalition.
However it turned into us becoming a cash cow for the rest of europe."

We were in fact living on IMF loans at the time, and the process of accepting what was then the EEC regulations was done in a pragmatic fashion, applied patchily at first

where would you like me to start?
Perhaps I could begin by asking which particular EU regulations you object to particularly on Health and Safety?
And remember that whatever they are we were involved in the process of formulating them, they were not simply imposed on us.
There wasn't a case of sudden imposition of EEC rules on us when we joined in 1973, that is a fallacy here is a link for you
https://www.parliament.uk/about/living-heritage/evolutionofparliament/legislativescrutiny/parliament-and-europe/overview/britain-and-eec-to-single-european-act/
The Health and Safety Executive was created by an act of parliament, not imposed on us by the EU

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_and_Safety_at_Work_etc._Act_1974
Laws for health and safety measures are the same throughout Europe, but rules have to be altered to fit into the national law of member states. This means that health and safety law can differ between European Union (EU) nations. It is important to find out the current laws and guidance for any EU country in which you work. EUGO provide business set-up details for every EU member state.

So if you are not happy with Health and Safety rules you will still face the same ones after Brexit.

Far from Health and safety being dictated by the EU
Sorry bit I can't help you over the rest of the post with it's talk about welcoming hard times in pusuit of Unicorns and rainbows being worth going hungry for.
However this link my help you see just how far opinions fuelled by the British press have deviated from reality in the minds of the British public
Euromyths passed off as truth by the UK press

As to being a "cash cow" we have wasted far more on Brexit than staying in would have cost.
And GM foods? an entirely separate issue to Brexit

 

[50Hertz]

The UK will be fine post Brexit crash out. We are a nation of inventors. Take the Bell Mk6 toilet for instance.

 

[flecc]

Is this true @flecc

View attachment 31069

I don't know, but it probably is. Coincidences are a very unreliable indicator of anything untoward, since they are far more common than it might be thought.

For example, many years ago having just met someone for the first time we realised that we both had the same initials and both had one Italian and one English parent. So we went looking for more similarities.

It transpired that we were both the second child of our families and second son. Then to cap it with my birthday 1st September, his was the 2nd September.

So five coincidences that superficially look unlikely, but when examined are not at all unusual.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

Hi there and thanks. Political type debates I generally avoid.
Mostly because whichever pov you take it is inevitably wrong! Even when it's not someone else tells you it is.

Tbh ive completely forgotten what even compelled me comment!

That and the fact that no one can take a comment at face value. Take my HSE gone mad point... Now there are people calling BS on it and dissecting every little remark. Along with telling me that the hse dept that is the bain of my life at times is wrong... I don't need someone to tell me that, I have to regularly explain why I have only managed to complete 2 hours of work in a 12hr shift given the hoops I am required jump through in order to comple a menial low risk task.

But no, some smart arse turnip is wittling on about needing a new harness for every lightbulb and not having the sense to replace more than one light at a time and why there isn't backup lighting etc.

The HSE is a UK Government organisation that can alter EU rules if the Governent decides to

 

[OxygenJames]

Unions can be a good thing. But they were out of control. Some union officials (in particular) - were taking the ****. Like the bankers did on the other side. Both extremes are where all the problems lie.

Neither side is 100% right about everything. That's just not how the world works. The unions were a real problem for the entire economy at that time. They controlled energy through coal - and production through the workers. They basically had control of the whole economy. And because of that the economy shrank.

Anyhow.

This is a much longer conversation than can really be satisfied here.

Its like what you want - ideally.... is the sensible parts of the unions..... running things jointly with the actual wealth-creating parts of bankers. And remember - bankers actual job is to allocate resources. When they do this well (through proper markets) - then everybody benefits. Resources go to places that there is the greatest chance of growth. People who figure badly on where to put resources lose out and fail - and are taken out of the economy. Good ideas are backed. People who can show competence and effectiveness get financed. How do you think technology got so far so quick? Because people with money saw the potential for everybody. And they made money too. Good. Win win.

 

[oldgroaner]

The UK will be fine post Brexit crash out. We are a nation of inventors. Take the Bell Mk6 toilet for instance.

That was the mk 5 the mk 6 has a Co2 self erecting feature for emergency situations
This is the state of play at the moment

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2011/nov/29/play-pee-urinal-games-console-patent
British company Captive Media has developed technology letting men shoot and fire at targets with their stream
There appears to be a catch
Research by trade paper Adweek suggests that men spend on average of 55 seconds relieving themselves, which equates to nine months over the course of a lifetime. Captive Media hopes to capitalise on the time spent at urinals to encourage businesses to take advantage of the uninterrupted audience.
How many interruptions from adverts? I would have made them the targets.
As my old MD was fond of saying "Ours is a business where we have the opportunity to urinate all over the opposition every day"
And to this end had the executive suite urinals refurbished with items provided by competitors.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

Nah he is a gopher.

He does everything that is deemed too menial for the special needs employee they have for box ticking purposes.

Now who's the bigot?

 

[oldgroaner]

Its like what you want - ideally.... is the sensible parts of the unions..... running things jointly with the actual wealth-creating parts of bankers. And remember - bankers actual job is to allocate resources. When they do this well (through proper markets) - then everybody benefits. Resources go to places that there is the greatest chance of growth. People who figure badly on where to put resources lose out and fail - and are taken out of the economy. Good ideas are backed. People who can show competence and effectiveness get financed. How do you think technology got so far so quick? Because people with money saw the potential for everybody. And they made money too. Good. Win win.

Allocate resources?
That's a good euphemism for abscond with the loot!

 

[Danidl]

BJ has absolutely no reason to cancel A50. All he wants is brexit.
The point I try to make is BJ can get the WA through parliament after crashing out, not before.
How long we operate under WTO is up to our parliament. If parliament doesn't want WTO then it has to vote with BJ as soon as possible after brexit.

We are talking at cross purposes. My contention is that unless some fudge emerges from the ECJ +EU AFTER the UK has crashed out, the UK automatically goes to the end of a long que. So whether the UK Parliament ratifies the WA in November or December or next January,it has lost all the initiative. It only retains an initiative, by making a decision BEFORE the agreed deadline

 

[oldgroaner]

I dont understand attitude on here. Flatcap came on to express his opinion and folk have to examine it in minute detail, refresh his memory about it and immediately try and modify his stance. Its at best confrontational. By all means express your own Wicki but we should leave it at that.
Problems I encountered trying to run business in France centred around EU legislation and French attitude of deciding who it applied to, some seemed immune, and when. It was a nightmare, said it before but its why I left. (sold up) H&S was part of it.
Said all along its why I voted out but get told its not valid or doesnt count or I know nothing . Lived there for 10 years. Thanks but no thanks.

I'm sure that was deep and meaningful

 

[Woosh]

. My contention is that unless some fudge emerges from the ECJ +EU AFTER the UK has crashed out, the UK automatically goes to the end of a long que.

no, it won't.
1. The treaty has been ratified by the EU.
2. The EU has no incentive to delay, simply because the WA allows the UK to have continued access to most parts of the SM until a deal is done and without cost.
3. Have you also forgotten that the UK is the largest trading partner of the EU?

 

[OxygenJames]

We are talking at cross purposes. My contention is that unless some fudge emerges from the ECJ +EU AFTER the UK has crashed out, the UK automatically goes to the end of a long que. So whether the UK Parliament ratifies the WA in November or December or next January,it has list all the initiative.

You think the German car manf would allow that sort of delay?! Danny - come on - keep up!

 

[OxygenJames]

Allocate resources?
That's a good euphemism for abscond with the loot!

No. Money goes into those industries. Come on - like I say how do you think technology got he money - people saw a good thing and backed it.

 

[50Hertz]

Chris Williamson: In, Out, in, Out shake it all about. Woah the Corbyn Cokey.

FFS.

 

[Wicky]

I dont understand attitude on here. Flatcap came on to express his opinion and folk have to examine it in minute detail, refresh his memory about it and immediately try and modify his stance. Its at best confrontational. By all means express your own Wicki but we should leave it at that.
Problems I encountered trying to run business in France centred around EU legislation and French attitude of deciding who it applied to, some seemed immune, and when. It was a nightmare, said it before but its why I left. (sold up) H&S was part of it.
Said all along its why I voted out but get told its not valid or doesnt count or I know nothing . Lived there for 10 years. Thanks but no thanks.

Maybe your business style/model (flogging cars/boats to folk) is more suited to the 'Wild West' completely deregulated - like Russia when Soviet Union collapsed...

 

[oldgroaner]

Is that piece of sanitary wear one of Gerald’s designs?

No, it looks like either a genuine Studio 1TH styled by a consultancy called Queensbury Hunt, and engineered by my Old friend Eric. or one of the many imported clones it's success spawned.
It was a devil to fire to keep the shape without the front sagging at first

Most of my work regarding the pottery ware was to do with designing the packaging, for instance a pack containing a bath, bath panel, basin,mixer, basin and pedestal, pan, cistern, brassware and all fixtures and fittings including shower mixer, basin taps and shower rail, and it had to be smalle enough to go into the back of a Volvo Estate.

The original design was using EPS Moulded forms to compete with an existing competitor's offering, but this method was vulnerable to damage, and messy for the consumer to dispose of. So after looking at the prototype, I changed to a crate design which had the contents strapped in place, not only was it far tougher it could be stacked as high as you liked and the customers found the wood useful, one even made a kennel out of it and sent in a photo.
I got a lot of mickey taking flak over that! I'm sure you can see why!
I tested the pack by placing it on a dolly and running it down a loading ramp into a brick wall, my director spent £3500 pounds having it tested at RAPRA,on a reciprocating platfrom and they got similar results , it was a successful pack,happy days, they sold very well.

 

[oldgroaner]

No. Money goes into those industries. Come on - like I say how do you think technology got he money - people saw a good thing and backed it.

An awful lot seems to have gone astray somewhere in the process

 

[oldgroaner]

It’s Health & Safety gone mad. There, someone had to say it.

I agree with you by the way.

It's simply the old "Jobsworth" at work

 

[oldgroaner]

View attachment 31068

There's no substitute for talent

 

[OxygenJames]

Come off it OJ this rant of yours is all hogwash

It's a free country OG - I'll rant if I feel like ranting.