Brexit, for once some facts.

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
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Let me refresh your memory on what you wrote

"Let's go down the HSE mad EU route... Changing a £2 friggin light bulb at work"...

Along with your listed your gripes from GM foods (thankfully someone thought of including food labling...) to fixing solid state TVs (things have moved on a tad since valves)
I dont understand attitude on here. Flatcap came on to express his opinion and folk have to examine it in minute detail, refresh his memory about it and immediately try and modify his stance. Its at best confrontational. By all means express your own Wicki but we should leave it at that.
Problems I encountered trying to run business in France centred around EU legislation and French attitude of deciding who it applied to, some seemed immune, and when. It was a nightmare, said it before but its why I left. (sold up) H&S was part of it.
Said all along its why I voted out but get told its not valid or doesnt count or I know nothing . Lived there for 10 years. Thanks but no thanks.
 

50Hertz

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 2, 2019
2,199
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Just when you were doing so well. WHAT THE FC UK DO YOU MEAN IT'S IMPOSSIBLE?!!! Says who?! Jesus. What an attitude!!!! We don't fc uking know yet what's going to come to pass - and here you are making out 'it's impossible'. Nonsense. Just total nonsense.
Steady, I’m a sensitive type, don’t yer know.

I just think that if Boris is elected, it won’t be until late July, then they all FO on holiday, then they all FO to the Tory conference and then it will be a matter of days before 31/10 arrives. The extension squandered.

Johnson may well crash us out of the EU and that will suit some, but for him to say that he can renegotiate, I think time is too tight. Given his undeniable track record of total contempt for and lying to the public, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume that his renegotiation statement is another whopper. Especially because he is a evasive when asked how he will do it. It’s like trying to nail a jelly to a wall.
 
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Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
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Johnson may well crash us out of the EU and that will suit some, but for him to say that he can renegotiate, I think time is too tight. Given his undeniable track record of total contempt for and lying to the public, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume that his renegotiation statement is another whopper. Especially because he is a evasive when asked how he will do it. It’s like trying to nail a jelly to a wall.
he'll start negotiating after crashing out.
He'll call MPs' bluff, banking on the fact that none of the turkeys will want to vote for Christmas, especially conservative remainers, certain to be deselected after trying to vote against his government.
All he'll need from the EU is to set an expiry date like 2025 for the backstop to claim victory. In any case, the EU will want to agree a deal before December 2020 so that the backstop will never need to come into force.
 
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Danidl

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Sep 29, 2016
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Steady, I’m a sensitive type, don’t yer know.

I just think that if Boris is elected, it won’t be until late July, then they all FO on holiday, then they all FO to the Tory conference and then it will be a matter of days before 31/10 arrives. The extension squandered.

Johnson may well crash us out of the EU and that will suit some, but for him to say that he can renegotiate, I think time is too tight. Given his undeniable track record of total contempt for and lying to the public, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to assume that his renegotiation statement is another whopper. Especially because he is a evasive when asked how he will do it. It’s like trying to nail a jelly to a wall.
Regrettably everything in this post is true
 

Danidl

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Sep 29, 2016
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he'll start negotiating after crashing out.
He'll call MPs' bluff, banking on the fact that none of the turkeys will want to vote for Christmas, especially conservative remainers, certain to be deselected after trying to vote against his government.
All he'll need from the EU is to set an expiry date like 2025 for the backstop to claim victory. In any case, the EU will want to agree a deal before December 2020 so that the backstop will never need to come into force.
He may well be thinking like that..But that is not what the EU will be thinking. Lets assume that Mr Barnier gets the top slot..highly plausible
The Crash out is the Crash out ,to rephrase a worn cliche. But the difference is that there is a body of law, and procedures behind it.
The outgoing commission cannot and will not set a date beyond their own expiry date..which is what has been done.
Finally even if he has friends in the Tory party,he also has enemies, and it takes very little to force a vote of no confidence.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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Here's Fraser Nelson with some ideas on how come its possible:

"Of all the tall stories that Boris Johnson has told, his latest – about how he’ll secure a Brexit deal by Hallowe’en – is seen as the most laughable. There is a million-to-one chance of his failing to negotiate a Brexit deal, he says. Most Tories think it’s the other way around, that he stands a million-to-one chance of success. They back him because they think he’d leave without a deal if he had to. But the mood music in Europe is changing and there’s a decent chance of a breakthrough – for a Prime Minister sharp enough to take it.

The EU still likes to say the deal it offered to Theresa May cannot be “reopened” but this is a bit of a verbal trick. No one is seriously expecting a new 585-page deal to be negotiated. If a few sentences were added to the end, giving either side the ability to walk away – in the way EU members and Nato members can walk away – then Parliament would probably vote it through. The Northern Irish backstop is a problem, but alternatives are there. Agreement is tantalisingly close.

Meanwhile, the cost of not doing a deal is becoming clearer. Leo Varadkar, the Irish Taoiseach, had been saying that no-deal – however painful – would be better than more compromise with the Brits. But this week his finance minister spelt out what no-deal would mean for Ireland: three years of pain, 85,000 job losses, economic growth crushed and billions of euros in extra borrowing. Why go through all this if it could be avoided, by a bit of goodwill?


Crucially a new argument against no-deal is coming from Berlin. Forget the economic cost, it says: something far more important is at stake. The trade war between America and China is turning into a wider cold war, placing Europe under pressure from both sides. Europe can resist this pressure, but it needs scale. And Britain. With a Brexit deal, the EU and UK would be close and could act as a diplomatic block – deciding together, for example, what to do about Huawei’s 5G services or other suspiciously lucrative Chinese contracts. In short, how to fight the trade-and-tech wars.

The Germans worry that in a no-deal situation the UK would end up in American arms, becoming its 51st state – and leaving the rest of Europe to be picked off by China piece by piece. Italy recently signed a lucrative deal to join China’s massive Belt and Road transport project, seen by many as Beijing’s attempt to project global influence. The G20 summit, which starts on Friday in Osaka, looks like a showdown between the 21st century’s two great global powers with Europeans looking on, struggling to be taken seriously. A Europe without Britain would struggle even more.

The original Brexit plan was for Britain to become the EU’s most powerful ally, to provide diplomatic heft whenever needed. “But that could go so easily wrong now,” one diplomat tells me. “The Germans are waking up to this too late. A no-deal Brexit would create an ocean of bad blood. People say it would not last, that the EU would offer a free trade deal or the Brits would sue for peace. But neither might happen. Things might never recover.”

So Germany is keen for a Brexit deal and is ready to help, but Boris would need to play ball. If he arrives in Brussels threatening to withhold the £39 billion, it will be over. The great British mistake has been to think that the EU responds to rational arguments about money. It is motivated by pride and the need not to lose face. Far better for Boris to deploy his perfect French in a summer charm offensive, visiting Emmanuel Macron and Jean-Claude Juncker in their villas if need be, begging them to help him keep a post-Brexit Europe together.

Of course they both loathe Boris – or, at least, give a good impression of doing so. No one doubted who Donald Tusk had in mind when he spoke of Brexiteers deserving a “special place in hell”. But if Boris switches tone, he could easily surprise them – perhaps convince them to say he has become a different man in office. His request could be simple. A tweak to the backstop, to make sure Britain cannot be stuck for ever in what is supposed to be a temporary arrangement, and he’d swallow the rest of the deal. In Dublin he could give assurances on the Good Friday Agreement. In Brussels he could agree never to tax Peter Mandelson’s EU pension.

But most of all, Boris can make the case for European diplomatic heft. He did so as Foreign Secretary, promising foreign audiences that Britain would be a flying buttress to the European cathedral (an analogy that was often lost in his audience as it stumped translators – one expressed it as a “flying bucket”). A no-deal Brexit, he can say, could poison European relations at precisely the time the continent is trying to stand together. Britain could act as one with the EU on Russia, China, terrorism and more – perhaps even join the EU in standing up to America and against Google and Facebook. With a deal, such co-operation would be easy to do. Without one, far, far harder.

Perhaps the hardest part will be talking Varadkar down from the ledge. His fairly hardline position has been popular at home. But as the costs and disruption of a no-deal are clearer, the stronger the case for compromise will be. With Iain Duncan Smith now chairing his campaign, Boris stands a decent chance of persuading his troops to give a little more ground. They would be open to persuasion, provided there’s no single market, no customs union and no EU membership after October 31. They’d also sooner depose him than compromise on any of the above.

The rise of Boris is, to many in Europe, a horror story. He is seen as the populist devil – so, if he wins, expectations won’t be hard to beat. An energetic charm offensive, asking for a tweaked deal and pleading for continental cohesion, is the last project that he’d be expected to embark upon. And that is precisely why it might work."
The Elephants in the room in all that include this

"The original Brexit plan was for Britain to become the EU’s most powerful ally, to provide diplomatic heft whenever needed. "
You are I take it being sarcastic? we have seen what interest you have in that with support for Boris!
and this
"The Germans worry that in a no-deal situation the UK would end up in American arms, becoming its 51st state "
Selling us out to the Americans was and is in fact the main supporting reason for Brexit
Come off it OJ this rant of yours is all hogwash
 
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Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
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He may well be thinking like that..But that is not what the EU will be thinking. Lets assume that Mr Barnier gets the top slot..highly plausible
The Crash out is the Crash out ,to rephrase a worn cliche. But the difference is that there is a body of law, and procedures behind it.
The outgoing commission cannot and will not set a date beyond their own expiry date..which is what has been done.
Finally even if he has friends in the Tory party,he also has enemies, and it takes very little to force a vote of no confidence.
Crashing out is just a short phase.
the deal has already been done, it's our parliament who refuses to ratify the WA.
how long does it take after the UK parliament ratifies the WA for the transition period to begin? 24 hours? 48 hours?

so what does it take for the ERG to vote with the government? they already have their man running the show, they will vote for the WA AFTER BJ crashes out.
As for conservative remainers, how many do you think will vote against the WA? I can't think of a single one.
The only problem is the DUP. They need some sweetener.
 
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Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
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Crashing out is just a short phase.
the deal has already been done, it's our parliament who refuses to ratify the WA.
how long does it take after the UK parliament ratifies the WA for the transition period to begin? 24 hours? 48 hours?

so what does it take for the ERG to vote with the government? they already have their man running the show, they will vote for the WA AFTER BJ crashes out.
As for conservative remainers, how many do you think will vote against the WA? I can't think of a single one.
The only problem is the DUP. They need some sweetener.
We would be in uncharted territory here, but my understanding is that without a deal on 1st November, the UK is out and under Lisbon Treaty terms needs to commence the full ritual dance. Now I guessed wrong about the decision by the ECJ in allowing the UK to unilaterally renounce their Article 50, So another fudge could be dreamed up.
 
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Fingers

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 9, 2016
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Crashing out is just a short phase.
the deal has already been done, it's our parliament who refuses to ratify the WA.
how long does it take after the UK parliament ratifies the WA for the transition period to begin? 24 hours? 48 hours?

so what does it take for the ERG to vote with the government? they already have their man running the show, they will vote for the WA AFTER BJ crashes out.
As for conservative remainers, how many do you think will vote against the WA? I can't think of a single one.
The only problem is the DUP. They need some sweetener.

Surely the new chief tory twat won't fall for that one again?

Arlene must have a charm that is hidden very deeply.
 

OxygenJames

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 8, 2012
2,593
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Utter *******. She killed the working class in this country forever. She killed society till it didn't exist.

Greed wasn't good.

Unions were and are a god thing.
Unions can be a good thing. But they were out of control. Some union officials (in particular) - were taking the ****. Like the bankers did on the other side. Both extremes are where all the problems lie.

Neither side is 100% right about everything. That's just not how the world works. The unions were a real problem for the entire economy at that time. They controlled energy through coal - and production through the workers. They basically had control of the whole economy. And because of that the economy shrank.

Anyhow.

This is a much longer conversation than can really be satisfied here.
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,372
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Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
We would be in uncharted territory here, but my understanding is that without a deal on 1st November, the UK is out and under Lisbon Treaty terms needs to commence the full ritual dance. Now I guessed wrong about the decision by the ECJ in allowing the UK to unilaterally renounce their Article 50, So another fudge could be dreamed up.
BJ has absolutely no reason to cancel A50. All he wants is brexit.
The point I try to make is BJ can get the WA through parliament after crashing out, not before.
How long we operate under WTO is up to our parliament. If parliament doesn't want WTO then it has to vote with BJ as soon as possible after brexit.
 
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