Which makes him a significant contributor to the most successful products in industrial history.
Inspiration is drawn from every single thing which surrounds us and the things we come into contact with.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
Inspiration is drawn from every single thing which surrounds us and the things we come into contact with.
Just when you were doing so well. WHAT THE FC UK DO YOU MEAN IT'S IMPOSSIBLE?!!! Says who?! Jesus. What an attitude!!!! We don't fc uking know yet what's going to come to pass - and here you are making out 'it's impossible'. Nonsense. Just total nonsense.
Here's Fraser Nelson with some ideas on how come its possible:
"Of all the tall stories that Boris Johnson has told, his latest – about how he’ll secure a Brexit deal by Hallowe’en – is seen as the most laughable. There is a million-to-one chance of his failing to negotiate a Brexit deal, he says. Most Tories think it’s the other way around, that he stands a million-to-one chance of success. They back him because they think he’d leave without a deal if he had to. But the mood music in Europe is changing and there’s a decent chance of a breakthrough – for a Prime Minister sharp enough to take it.
The EU still likes to say the deal it offered to Theresa May cannot be “reopened” but this is a bit of a verbal trick. No one is seriously expecting a new 585-page deal to be negotiated. If a few sentences were added to the end, giving either side the ability to walk away – in the way EU members and Nato members can walk away – then Parliament would probably vote it through. The Northern Irish backstop is a problem, but alternatives are there. Agreement is tantalisingly close.
Meanwhile, the cost of not doing a deal is becoming clearer. Leo Varadkar, the Irish Taoiseach, had been saying that no-deal – however painful – would be better than more compromise with the Brits. But this week his finance minister spelt out what no-deal would mean for Ireland: three years of pain, 85,000 job losses, economic growth crushed and billions of euros in extra borrowing. Why go through all this if it could be avoided, by a bit of goodwill?
Crucially a new argument against no-deal is coming from Berlin. Forget the economic cost, it says: something far more important is at stake. The trade war between America and China is turning into a wider cold war, placing Europe under pressure from both sides. Europe can resist this pressure, but it needs scale. And Britain. With a Brexit deal, the EU and UK would be close and could act as a diplomatic block – deciding together, for example, what to do about Huawei’s 5G services or other suspiciously lucrative Chinese contracts. In short, how to fight the trade-and-tech wars.
The Germans worry that in a no-deal situation the UK would end up in American arms, becoming its 51st state – and leaving the rest of Europe to be picked off by China piece by piece. Italy recently signed a lucrative deal to join China’s massive Belt and Road transport project, seen by many as Beijing’s attempt to project global influence. The G20 summit, which starts on Friday in Osaka, looks like a showdown between the 21st century’s two great global powers with Europeans looking on, struggling to be taken seriously. A Europe without Britain would struggle even more.
The original Brexit plan was for Britain to become the EU’s most powerful ally, to provide diplomatic heft whenever needed. “But that could go so easily wrong now,” one diplomat tells me. “The Germans are waking up to this too late. A no-deal Brexit would create an ocean of bad blood. People say it would not last, that the EU would offer a free trade deal or the Brits would sue for peace. But neither might happen. Things might never recover.”
So Germany is keen for a Brexit deal and is ready to help, but Boris would need to play ball. If he arrives in Brussels threatening to withhold the £39 billion, it will be over. The great British mistake has been to think that the EU responds to rational arguments about money. It is motivated by pride and the need not to lose face. Far better for Boris to deploy his perfect French in a summer charm offensive, visiting Emmanuel Macron and Jean-Claude Juncker in their villas if need be, begging them to help him keep a post-Brexit Europe together.
Of course they both loathe Boris – or, at least, give a good impression of doing so. No one doubted who Donald Tusk had in mind when he spoke of Brexiteers deserving a “special place in hell”. But if Boris switches tone, he could easily surprise them – perhaps convince them to say he has become a different man in office. His request could be simple. A tweak to the backstop, to make sure Britain cannot be stuck for ever in what is supposed to be a temporary arrangement, and he’d swallow the rest of the deal. In Dublin he could give assurances on the Good Friday Agreement. In Brussels he could agree never to tax Peter Mandelson’s EU pension.
But most of all, Boris can make the case for European diplomatic heft. He did so as Foreign Secretary, promising foreign audiences that Britain would be a flying buttress to the European cathedral (an analogy that was often lost in his audience as it stumped translators – one expressed it as a “flying bucket”). A no-deal Brexit, he can say, could poison European relations at precisely the time the continent is trying to stand together. Britain could act as one with the EU on Russia, China, terrorism and more – perhaps even join the EU in standing up to America and against Google and Facebook. With a deal, such co-operation would be easy to do. Without one, far, far harder.
Perhaps the hardest part will be talking Varadkar down from the ledge. His fairly hardline position has been popular at home. But as the costs and disruption of a no-deal are clearer, the stronger the case for compromise will be. With Iain Duncan Smith now chairing his campaign, Boris stands a decent chance of persuading his troops to give a little more ground. They would be open to persuasion, provided there’s no single market, no customs union and no EU membership after October 31. They’d also sooner depose him than compromise on any of the above.
The rise of Boris is, to many in Europe, a horror story. He is seen as the populist devil – so, if he wins, expectations won’t be hard to beat. An energetic charm offensive, asking for a tweaked deal and pleading for continental cohesion, is the last project that he’d be expected to embark upon. And that is precisely why it might work."
@ Oldgroaner Based on your photo and name I would have had you pegged as someone who can actually remember the world before... and as we joined the EU?
All the quotas, bans, levis etc that were imposed on us the moment we joined... We were not a country in dire straights at the time of joining it just seemed like a promising coalition.
However it turned into us becoming a cash cow for the rest of europe.
No point arguing around the in/out part now... We made that bed!
Let's go down the HSE mad EU route... Changing a £2 friggin light bulb at work, down the common sense route i could safely change a lightbulb using a stepladder. It would take 5 mins and cost maybe £15 total...
Now i'm not allowed to use a stepladder, so we have to hire in access equipt... that's now a cost of £500 for a days hire of a cherry picker, £200 for a harness, £400 for training to use the cherry picker, instead of taking 5 mins now takes 3 weeks of planning, risk assessments closes an entire section of warehouse for 1/2 a day and now costs the best part of £1200 (for a £2 light bulb) And you need ask why prices are spiraling astronomically?
I'm all for HSE, i wanna go home at the end of the day same as everyone else, but there has to be a balance!
You wanna talk people having a choice... let's go down the trade deal routes!
We already have a choice (mostly) on what we can buy in a supermarket, organic, non organic,full sugar, no sugar loaded with nasty sweeteners (just a few years ago were all giving us cancer, i see that's forgotten about) etc.
Yes that's right i'm one of the minority that no one accepts exists... I am hypersensitive to sweeteners and anything that contains a considerable amount tastes like someone is trying to roofie me with Disprol! Not so thirst quenching
So what's the big F'ing deal with GM foods... they will sit on a shelf at a supermarket and we (the consumer) can CHOOSE to buy it or leave it on a shelf!
Jump in there with a trade deal from the far East and Bam... we can buy battery packs for a reasonable price and pedelec our way around the whole country now at an affordable price not an insane price hike.
Yea there are gonna be some harder times ahead whilst we get on our feet again. Like the first time you move away from your parents, but you knuckle down and move on.
What did do when a tv broke down... we called the repair man and they came and fixed it heck, it must be 20 years since i last saw a tv repair shop on the high street now!
We have farming, that had always produced a staggering excess for export (until the EU quotas) and what about the great UK industries that were slowly priced out.
You want quality steel the world went to Sheffield not Unit 2 Yangdong way, chun-lee province, Obscure ville China...
You wanted a big ass boat, you went to the Clyde or the Tyne.
All of these industries went the way of the Dodo as a result of levis imposed and cheaper products coming through the EU.
This is a result of the EUs own doing, 30 years of being promised an equal share to a vision and instead getting the whipping boys deal. Our own government made the mistake of thinking that the people forgot this over the last 40ish years.
All the quotas, bans, levis etc that were imposed on us the moment we joined... We were not a country in dire straights at the time of joining it just seemed like a promising coalition.
However it turned into us becoming a cash cow for the rest of europe.
No point arguing around the in/out part now... We made that bed!
Let's go down the HSE mad EU route... Changing a £2 friggin light bulb at work, down the common sense route i could safely change a lightbulb using a stepladder. It would take 5 mins and cost maybe £15 total...
Now i'm not allowed to use a stepladder, so we have to hire in access equipt... that's now a cost of £500 for a days hire of a cherry picker, £200 for a harness, £400 for training to use the cherry picker, instead of taking 5 mins now takes 3 weeks of planning, risk assessments closes an entire section of warehouse for 1/2 a day and now costs the best part of £1200 (for a £2 light bulb) And you need ask why prices are spiraling astronomically?
I'm all for HSE, i wanna go home at the end of the day same as everyone else, but there has to be a balance!
You wanna talk people having a choice... let's go down the trade deal routes!
We already have a choice (mostly) on what we can buy in a supermarket, organic, non organic,
Yes that's right i'm one of the minority that no one accepts exists... I am hypersensitive to sweeteners and anything that contains a considerable amount tastes like someone is trying to roofie me with Disprol! Not so thirst quenching
So what's the big F'ing deal with GM foods... they will sit on a shelf at a supermarket and we (the consumer) can CHOOSE to buy it or leave it on a shelf!
Jump in there with a trade deal from the far East and Bam... we can buy battery packs for a reasonable price and pedelec our way around the whole country now at an affordable price not an insane price hike.
Yea there are gonna be some harder times ahead whilst we get on our feet again. Like the first time you move away from your parents, but you knuckle down and move on.
What did do when a tv broke down... we called the repair man and they came and fixed it heck, it must be 20 years since i last saw a tv repair shop on the high street now!
We have farming, that had always produced a staggering excess for export (until the EU quotas) and what about the great UK industries that were slowly priced out.
You want quality steel the world went to Sheffield not Unit 2 Yangdong way, chun-lee province, Obscure ville China...
You wanted a big ass boat, you went to the Clyde or the Tyne.
All of these industries went the way of the Dodo as a result of levis imposed and cheaper products coming through the EU.
This is a result of the EUs own doing, 30 years of being promised an equal share to a vision and instead getting the whipping boys deal. Our own government made the mistake of thinking that the people forgot this over the last 40ish years.
@ Oldgroaner Based on your photo and name I would have had you pegged as someone who can actually remember the world before... and as we joined the EU?
All the quotas, bans, levis etc that were imposed on us the moment we joined... We were not a country in dire straights at the time of joining it just seemed like a promising coalition.
However it turned into us becoming a cash cow for the rest of europe.
No point arguing around the in/out part now... We made that bed!
Let's go down the HSE mad EU route... Changing a £2 friggin light bulb at work, down the common sense route i could safely change a lightbulb using a stepladder. It would take 5 mins and cost maybe £15 total...
Now i'm not allowed to use a stepladder, so we have to hire in access equipt... that's now a cost of £500 for a days hire of a cherry picker, £200 for a harness, £400 for training to use the cherry picker, instead of taking 5 mins now takes 3 weeks of planning, risk assessments closes an entire section of warehouse for 1/2 a day and now costs the best part of £1200 (for a £2 light bulb) And you need ask why prices are spiraling astronomically?
I'm all for HSE, i wanna go home at the end of the day same as everyone else, but there has to be a balance!
You wanna talk people having a choice... let's go down the trade deal routes!
We already have a choice (mostly) on what we can buy in a supermarket, organic, non organic,full sugar, no sugar loaded with nasty sweeteners (just a few years ago were all giving us cancer, i see that's forgotten about) etc.
Yes that's right i'm one of the minority that no one accepts exists... I am hypersensitive to sweeteners and anything that contains a considerable amount tastes like someone is trying to roofie me with Disprol! Not so thirst quenching
So what's the big F'ing deal with GM foods... they will sit on a shelf at a supermarket and we (the consumer) can CHOOSE to buy it or leave it on a shelf!
Jump in there with a trade deal from the far East and Bam... we can buy battery packs for a reasonable price and pedelec our way around the whole country now at an affordable price not an insane price hike.
Yea there are gonna be some harder times ahead whilst we get on our feet again. Like the first time you move away from your parents, but you knuckle down and move on.
What did do when a tv broke down... we called the repair man and they came and fixed it heck, it must be 20 years since i last saw a tv repair shop on the high street now!
We have farming, that had always produced a staggering excess for export (until the EU quotas) and what about the great UK industries that were slowly priced out.
You want quality steel the world went to Sheffield not Unit 2 Yangdong way, chun-lee province, Obscure ville China...
You wanted a big ass boat, you went to the Clyde or the Tyne.
All of these industries went the way of the Dodo as a result of levis imposed and cheaper products coming through the EU.
This is a result of the EUs own doing, 30 years of being promised an equal share to a vision and instead getting the whipping boys deal. Our own government made the mistake of thinking that the people forgot this over the last 40ish years.
Nice post Flats.
And furthermore great avatar.
I do so love Rik and Morty
Same old urban myths rehashed to make it seem the EU is at fault for everything
Case 383 - Odd job person in managed block of flats not allowed to change light bulbs for health and safety reasons
Management company advised that odd job person is unable to change light bulbs as they would only be protected from negligence if a competent electrician carried out the job.
You started with this falsehood, we were very much in dire straights. Having lost our cycle, motorcycle, motor, much of our shipbuilding and aircraft industries with the loss of our captive Empire market and our commercial shipping, we were in trouble. So much so that the IMF had to step in to run our economy throughout much of the 1970s to get us back on track.
Then within the EU we were able to start rebuilding some of our industrial base, albeit often with foreign country companies.
I lived through all those times and was in the first three of those listed occupations during the years of decline so know them well.
.
Same old urban myths rehashed to make it seem the EU is at fault for everything
Case 383 - Odd job person in managed block of flats not allowed to change light bulbs for health and safety reasons
Management company advised that odd job person is unable to change light bulbs as they would only be protected from negligence if a competent electrician carried out the job.www.hse.gov.uk
He wasn't talking about a residential property.
But hey, don't let that get in the way of your instant rebuttal mechanism.
Or your lack of comprehension...
Our decline wasn't the 70's it was Thatcher in the 80's.
Christ. We built Concorde in the 70's.
Who was responsible for designing a building which requires all this? Wouldn't anyone sensible have installed extra lights (and appropriate controls) so no-one ever needs to do all that? Just switch the dead or flashing one off, and a spare on. (Or any of many other possible approaches.)
Do you really need to buy a new harness and have extra training every single time a lamp fails?
Do you go through all that for one lamp? Or do you exploit the opportunity for replacing all the older lamps at the same time to avoid future issues?
And, really, just what does the cost of an individual lamp bulb have to do with it? Whether it costs 2p or £2,000 - you are actually complaining about everything else. That low cost simply serves to bolster the idea of having spares.
I didn't say it was. The decline was of what I listed during the two previous decades , taking us to the early 1970s when the IMF came in to rescue us from bankruptcy by a regime of strict financial control through that decade.
.
Very interesting. Bravo and welcome to the thread. May you have many pleasant arguments here.@ Oldgroaner Based on your photo and name I would have had you pegged as someone who can actually remember the world before... and as we joined the EU?
All the quotas, bans, levis etc that were imposed on us the moment we joined... We were not a country in dire straights at the time of joining it just seemed like a promising coalition.
However it turned into us becoming a cash cow for the rest of europe.
No point arguing around the in/out part now... We made that bed!
Let's go down the HSE mad EU route... Changing a £2 friggin light bulb at work, down the common sense route i could safely change a lightbulb using a stepladder. It would take 5 mins and cost maybe £15 total...
Now i'm not allowed to use a stepladder, so we have to hire in access equipt... that's now a cost of £500 for a days hire of a cherry picker, £200 for a harness, £400 for training to use the cherry picker, instead of taking 5 mins now takes 3 weeks of planning, risk assessments closes an entire section of warehouse for 1/2 a day and now costs the best part of £1200 (for a £2 light bulb) And you need ask why prices are spiraling astronomically?
I'm all for HSE, i wanna go home at the end of the day same as everyone else, but there has to be a balance!
You wanna talk people having a choice... let's go down the trade deal routes!
We already have a choice (mostly) on what we can buy in a supermarket, organic, non organic,full sugar, no sugar loaded with nasty sweeteners (just a few years ago were all giving us cancer, i see that's forgotten about) etc.
Yes that's right i'm one of the minority that no one accepts exists... I am hypersensitive to sweeteners and anything that contains a considerable amount tastes like someone is trying to roofie me with Disprol! Not so thirst quenching
So what's the big F'ing deal with GM foods... they will sit on a shelf at a supermarket and we (the consumer) can CHOOSE to buy it or leave it on a shelf!
Jump in there with a trade deal from the far East and Bam... we can buy battery packs for a reasonable price and pedelec our way around the whole country now at an affordable price not an insane price hike.
Yea there are gonna be some harder times ahead whilst we get on our feet again. Like the first time you move away from your parents, but you knuckle down and move on.
What did do when a tv broke down... we called the repair man and they came and fixed it heck, it must be 20 years since i last saw a tv repair shop on the high street now!
We have farming, that had always produced a staggering excess for export (until the EU quotas) and what about the great UK industries that were slowly priced out.
You want quality steel the world went to Sheffield not Unit 2 Yangdong way, chun-lee province, Obscure ville China...
You wanted a big ass boat, you went to the Clyde or the Tyne.
All of these industries went the way of the Dodo as a result of levis imposed and cheaper products coming through the EU.
This is a result of the EUs own doing, 30 years of being promised an equal share to a vision and instead getting the whipping boys deal. Our own government made the mistake of thinking that the people forgot this over the last 40ish years.
If you could safely change the lamp using a stepladder then nothing in H&S legislation will prevent you continuing to do so.
Presumably someone in your organisation has little understanding of risk assessment and control or may be trying to mitigate against being sued which has nothing to do with H&S.
You can't honestly believe that the EU brought about the use of flat panel TV's instead of the crt sets with valves and discrete components that could be repaired with a screwdriver and soldering iron.
Er.... Sorry but no - the decline had already happened by the time Thatcher got in - the 70s were dire - I know I lived through them.
It wasn't till Thatcher finally got to grips with how utterly out of control the unions were and some old-fashioned discipline was re-instated that things started to turn around.
Utter *******. She killed the working class in this country forever. She killed society till it didn't exist.
Greed wasn't good.
Unions were and are a god thing.
By
Bringing down the government/vote of no confidence. Of course boris will never take it that far. He should have put "hard brexit" on the side of a bus.
It’s Health & Safety gone mad. There, someone had to say it.
I agree with you by the way.
