Brexit, for once some facts.

[Danidl]

I, m not disagreeing with you over BJ. However the personal issues that could make him inappropriate pale into insignificance when we consider overall position. What is the point of appointing a new PM with absolutely no change of policy or proceedure.
The issue isnt who should be in no10 its where is the government going. May could not get her deal past government, we are missing the salient issue. Without change we either get no deal or remain. Rather than us all arguing about BJ we should, or government should, be deciding on strategy not personell. Without a change in strategy, which we are running out of time to decide on, let alone act upon, nothing can change irrespective of who is in no10.
I wonder if its all a distraction to keep us looking other way until Oct 31st.
Government shouldnt be arguing over BJ/Hunt they should be deciding on "no deal" /"remain" /"alternative", and actuall deciding what we are doing and not just getting what EU decide we are getting. Be that remaining, so be it. Be it no deal, well get organised for it. We are drifting with no course set, no bearing to sail on and no idea which port we are heading for. Squabbling over who is captain is futile.
When BJ or Hunt take up residence in no 10 we are right back where we started 3 years ago. Probably a worse place.

I am inclined to agree with you at the macrolevel. The UK is now in a much worse situation than it was 3 years ago. Then there was a hope ,that things would work out ok . Three years and much goodwill squandered, unless the deal WA is signed is the current position. Without it ,there will be no future relationship.
However . while it will not affect the scheduling of Brexit, the character of the person whom you choose as PM matters a lot. .. Certainly a lot more than say our Taoiseach, because he,under our system is bound to act in accordance with a tightly crafted constitution , which has a Supreme court ready to pounce .

 

[Danidl]

From Todays Irish Independent.....
Japan has publicly cautioned the two candidates vying to replace UK Prime Minister Theresa May that Japanese investment could leave the country if there is a no-deal Brexit, urging Boris Johnson and Jeremy Hunt to avoid such a scenario.

Japan, one of the biggest investors in the British economy, is very concerned about a disorderly Brexit that would have a very negative impact on Japanese firms in Britain, Foreign Minister Taro Kono told the BBC.

"Please, no no-deal Brexit," Kono said in English. "Some companies are already starting to move their operations to other places in Europe."

Asked whether investment could leave Britain, Kono said: "It could be that there is going to be less investment."

Please, no no-deal Brexit. Some companies are already starting to move their operations to other places in Europe.

 

[oyster]

Interesting news from PSA:

Vauxhall Astra to be built in UK if ministers avoid no-deal Brexit
PSA Group’s decision would be boost to British car industry and workers at Ellesmere Port

French carmaker PSA Group has warned that it will only build its new Vauxhall Astra at its Ellesmere Port plant if the UK avoids a no-deal Brexit, in a stark indication of the importance of trade with the EU to the British car industry.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jun/27/vauxhall-astra-to-be-built-in-uk-if-ministers-avoid-no-deal-brexit

First info about constituency I found was:
Ellesmere Port and Neston is a constituency represented in the House of Commons of the UK Parliament since 2015 by Justin Madders of the Labour Party.

 

[50Hertz]

Interesting news from PSA:

Vauxhall Astra to be built in UK if ministers avoid no-deal Brexit
PSA Group’s decision would be boost to British car industry and workers at Ellesmere Port

French carmaker PSA Group has warned that it will only build its new Vauxhall Astra at its Ellesmere Port plant if the UK avoids a no-deal Brexit, in a stark indication of the importance of trade with the EU to the British car industry.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jun/27/vauxhall-astra-to-be-built-in-uk-if-ministers-avoid-no-deal-brexit

First info about constituency I found was:
Ellesmere Port and Neston is a constituency represented in the House of Commons of the UK Parliament since 2015 by Justin Madders of the Labour Party.

It makes you wonder how the employees view Brexit. Do they put the prize of Brexit and whatever benefits that may, or may not, deliver above their livelihoods?

 

[Zlatan]

From Todays Irish Independent.....
Japan has publicly cautioned the two candidates vying to replace UK Prime Minister Theresa May that Japanese investment could leave the country if there is a no-deal Brexit, urging Boris Johnson and Jeremy Hunt to avoid such a scenario.

Japan, one of the biggest investors in the British economy, is very concerned about a disorderly Brexit that would have a very negative impact on Japanese firms in Britain, Foreign Minister Taro Kono told the BBC.

"Please, no no-deal Brexit," Kono said in English. "Some companies are already starting to move their operations to other places in Europe."

Asked whether investment could leave Britain, Kono said: "It could be that there is going to be less investment."

Please, no no-deal Brexit. Some companies are already starting to move their operations to other places in Europe.

That could quite easily be the case but the fact remains rather than putting effort and time into deciding who is next priminister we should have kept the one we had and answered some of the points you raise. Plan a route rather than wait for next Captain to do so.
There are still folk who believe because our government has "outlawed" no deal that it cant happen. I, m afraid they are sadly mistaken. The EU will enforce a no deal by default if we dont answer the issues, and others, raised. This is especially the case when its considered some in government support no deal.
For anybody supporting BJ over May, or Hunt over BJ, or anyone else, please explain what any incoming PM can acheive May couldnt,especially so considering time is once again running out.
Yes, May wasnt perfect but will BJ or Hunt be and what benefits will either bring over her. None,and probably a few negatives as Fingers suggests.
Were we appointing a PM with a change of policy, ie remain or referendum or even crashing out I could see point but simply replacing May with another essentially fence sitter with no change and one simply trying to keep in no 10 by saying right things is utterly pointless.
We need a leader, we havent got one anywhere.

 

[oyster]

I am inclined to agree with you at the macrolevel. The UK is now in a much worse situation than it was 3 years ago. Then there was a hope ,that things would work out ok . Three years and much goodwill squandered, unless the deal WA is signed is the current position. Without it ,there will be no future relationship.
However . while it will not affect the scheduling of Brexit, the character of the person whom you choose as PM matters a lot. .. Certainly a lot more than say our Taoiseach, because he,under our system is bound to act in accordance with a tightly crafted constitution , which has a Supreme court ready to pounce .

I strongly get the impression that anything the UK's Supreme Court said or did would be looked on as meddling, getting involved in things they shouldn't. However well founded in law.

 

[Zlatan]

I strongly get the impression that anything the UK's Supreme Court said or did would be looked on as meddling, getting involved in things they shouldn't. However well founded in law.

And our courts will have no jurisdiction over EU actions.

 

[Fingers]

It makes you wonder how the employees view Brexit. Do they put the prize of Brexit and whatever benefits that may, or may not, deliver above their livelihoods?

It’s all *******.

We can offer better deals if we so choose in the future.

That’s what scares the EU. We can undercut their sweat shops in Hungary and Poland if we so choose.

We out spend the whole of 21 countries put together in the EU by ourselves!

And without our tourists pounds it creeps to 23!

Is it really worth their while saving a few quid when we stop buying Japanese or German cars and start buying Indian and South Korean cars?

That wouldn’t be my aim I’d like the EU to be exposed for what it is and countries to wake up and realise they have the purchase power. We should control our destiny.

 

[Fingers]

And our courts will have no jurisdiction over EU actions.

No. But we should have basic understanding.

It’s not like we or they are Russia.

We have the same values.

 

[Danidl]

Interesting news from PSA:

Vauxhall Astra to be built in UK if ministers avoid no-deal Brexit
PSA Group’s decision would be boost to British car industry and workers at Ellesmere Port

French carmaker PSA Group has warned that it will only build its new Vauxhall Astra at its Ellesmere Port plant if the UK avoids a no-deal Brexit, in a stark indication of the importance of trade with the EU to the British car industry.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/jun/27/vauxhall-astra-to-be-built-in-uk-if-ministers-avoid-no-deal-brexit

First info about constituency I found was:
Ellesmere Port and Neston is a constituency represented in the House of Commons of the UK Parliament since 2015 by Justin Madders of the Labour Party.

It strikes me that the headline is at variance with the content... ie PSA are saying in no deal scenario no chance in hell of getting the Astras built in the UK. With a deal..and presumably an acceptable deal, there is a chance, not a certainty. But this comes as no surprise ro anyone familiar with any aspect of mass production.

 

[Danidl]

I strongly get the impression that anything the UK's Supreme Court said or did would be looked on as meddling, getting involved in things they shouldn't. However well founded in law.

Exactly. But going back over past arguments the highest authority in the UK is your Parliament, and the PM is the most important person in it. Which means that selecting the candidate is very important.
In other countries, the highest authority is the Constitution, and the PM is bound to act under its strictures . Any act passed by any Government or Parliament has to pass the test of whether it is in conformity with the constitution. And it is Judges of the Supreme Court who make this call.

 

[Fingers]

It strikes me that the headline is at variance with the content... ie PSA are saying in no deal scenario no chance in hell of getting the Astras built in the UK. With a deal..and presumably an acceptable deal, there is a chance, not a certainty. But this comes as no surprise ro anyone familiar with any aspect of mass production.

No. You are seeing it with a foreigners eyes. A foreigners eyes that is scared of us leaving the EU.

I see it as bluster. I see it as Airbus 2.1.

See how that happened......

It’s merely a political headline. One devoured by your ilk. Although your ilk is hard to pin down. There are many Anglophiles. There are few Anglophiles with Stockholm syndrome though.

You are a very confused specimen. It’s a chore reading your posts as you really are boring and two dimensional.

But I do manage to get by. You make me feel clever and rounded. Clever, rounded and knowledgeable. And with a certain pride in my own country.

Thank you for that.

 

[Fingers]

Exactly. But going back over past arguments the highest authority in the UK is your Parliament, and the PM is the most important person in it. Which means that selecting the candidate is very important.
In other countries, the highest authority is the Constitution, and the PM is bound to act under its strictures . Any act passed by any Government or Parliament has to pass the test of whether it is in conformity with the constitution. And it is Judges of the Supreme Court who make this call.

Incorrect.

You are always incorrect when it comes to matters of our state.

 

[50Hertz]

Maybe. I have won a BAFTA though.

What's the equivalent in the toilet world and did you get one?

Don’t knock toilet designers. I have just read an article about Sir Jonathan Ive. He is credited with designing the iMac, iPhone, iPod, iPad, MacBook Air, the Apple Watch and a few other well known Apple gadgets. I don’t think he invented the guts of these products, but he is certainly responsible for the form, look and human interface that they possess. He is a key player in creating the most profitable products in industrial history. Sir Jonathan is also very accomplished and well regarded in the lavatory industry, having spent part of his career designing them.

Arise Sir Gerald?

 

[OxygenJames]

From Todays Irish Independent.....
Japan has publicly cautioned the two candidates vying to replace UK Prime Minister Theresa May that Japanese investment could leave the country if there is a no-deal Brexit, urging Boris Johnson and Jeremy Hunt to avoid such a scenario.

Japan, one of the biggest investors in the British economy, is very concerned about a disorderly Brexit that would have a very negative impact on Japanese firms in Britain, Foreign Minister Taro Kono told the BBC.

"Please, no no-deal Brexit," Kono said in English. "Some companies are already starting to move their operations to other places in Europe."

Asked whether investment could leave Britain, Kono said: "It could be that there is going to be less investment."

Please, no no-deal Brexit. Some companies are already starting to move their operations to other places in Europe.

Look - we all know a no-deal Brexit will hit the Irish economy hard. So it's no wonder you're all so worried about it.

 

[OxygenJames]

No. You are seeing it with a foreigners eyes. A foreigners eyes that is scared of us leaving the EU.

I see it as bluster. I see it as Airbus 2.1.

See how that happened......

It’s merely a political headline. One devoured by your ilk. Although your ilk is hard to pin down. There are many Anglophiles. There are few Anglophiles with Stockholm syndrome though.

You are a very confused specimen. It’s a chore reading your posts as you really are boring and two dimensional.

But I do manage to get by. You make me feel clever and rounded. Clever, rounded and knowledgeable. And with a certain pride in my own country.

Thank you for that.

He's seeing it through Irish eyes - like I just said a no-deal Brexit will hit them hard. Economically hard.

 

[oldgroaner]

Don’t knock toilet designers. I have just read an article about Sir Jonathan Ive. He is credited with designing the iMac, iPhone, iPod, iPad, MacBook Air, the Apple Watch and a few other well known Apple gadgets. I don’t think he invented the guts of these products, but he is certainly responsible for the form, look and human interface that they possess. He is a key player in creating the most profitable products in industrial history. Sir Jonathan is also very accomplished and well regarded in the lavatory industry, having spent part of his career designing them.

Arise Sir Gerald?

Actually very few of the Bell Clan are ever knighted, the whole clan was ejected from it's native Scotland by King James 1 as "benighted"
Sir Plus in fact...

as to Sir John Ive this bit from wikipedia fits with my memory of him
"However, his frustration with the position reached a turning point after he designed a toilet, bidet and sink for client Ideal Standard, and the company's boss rejected Ive's work, stating that the products were too costly and looked too modern..
we always had problems with Stylists like him, who didn't understand water distribution flow patterns and pottery production itself.

We got the most out of these so called Industrial designers if we restricted them to applying a style to an already created model.
That way not only could you say it was designed by an "Internationally acclaimed designer" but it actually did what it was intended to!

Generally our Market Research guys preferred to hire an external stylist to annoy the inhouse guys who really knew what they were doing and had to make a Silk Purse out of a sow's ear so that they could walk away with a fat fee and their reputation enhanced.

It was all very much akin to the time Victoria Beckham unveiled the Range Rover Evoque and announced "when I designed this car"

 

[Woosh]

For anybody supporting BJ over May, or Hunt over BJ, or anyone else, please explain what any incoming PM can acheive May couldnt,especially so considering time is once again running out.

a new PM can remove TM's old redlines.
the ERG will have their man that they know they own for fact, not just believe they own. Their man will prorogue parliament to get brexit through, cut taxes especially inheritance, stamp duty, corporation tax etc, then leave the scene at the next GE.
Job done for the 63% of conservative membership.

 

[oldgroaner]

The Telegraph are really optimistic
"Fraser Nelson
With the EU in need of friends on the world stage, conditions are ripe for Boris to pull off a Brexit deal

 

[oldgroaner]

In the Daily Mail
"BBC censored Boris's insult to the French: Ex-Foreign Secretary branded nation 'turds' over Brexit in documentary but producers axed jibe amid diplomatic pressure "

He is going to be a disaster