they are all prone to lies and exaggeration when it suits. If we had to nullify every vote because of it we would be having many more elections. What did Blair say?? 24 hours to save the NHS or some such bs. I don't recall mass hysteria over that, or many of the other lies that have got politicians elected
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
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Very true. Nor did Boris, it was a huge and unpleasant shock to him, which rather fouled up his personal plans.
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I believe this to be true. There is a massive amount of MPs and people in fact, you only have to look on here, who want Brexit to be a disaster of epic proportions so they can say 'Told you so'
That really is the equivalent of cutting your nose to spite your face.
I don't think that's true for most remainers, including me. Just a few want that.
I'd love Brexit to be a spectacular success with the UK prospering, but I don't think there's any chance of that.
That opinion doesn't mean I want it to fail, just that I don't see any prospect of success, especially with the calibre of politicians and even most business persons that we have.
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In your case I totally believe you but its a case of exception proving the rule.
There are posters on here that revel in anything negative attributed to Brexit(he he he) and others who simply gloat in their mother shipton shotgun approach to predicting future with their rather clouded balls and judgement.
Its been a fantastic development seeing some more informed leavers willing to put arguments forward.
As to a deal. I, m with Hargreaves again on this. Will be an easy deal a few days post no deal. EU will be clamouring to make them, well actually individual countries will be doing...
Looking more like a no deal each passing hour.
As for Begum... Could we perhaps organise an exchange with Diane Abott... She and her kind have done more damage to country than some teenager ever could.
We could draw up a list of folk needing arbitary exile. Great idea. Vote on FB or allTwitstogether. Dont need a court, lets just say a thouand votes and you are gone...
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no I think the general consensus of the polls was that remain would win. Some got a nasty surprise and some got a pleasant one
All in spite of the scare tactics of the Losers - remember what they forecast when the vote was announced? !!
Sorry, but it isn`t happening.
Amazing how much good some people can attribute to all the advisory notices EU direct at us, which most ignore.
You attribute economic benefits to EU, the political being, when actually any benefits are simply down to trade deals.
You and EU for some reason link the 2 inexorably. They do not have to be linked. We can trade with any group, race, country or regime. Why should we have to align ourselves under even an advisory political structure to reap benefits of deals which should be outside political beliefs.
You dont see it flecc, but the EU are buying your political support to support a flawed political entity. Its actually quite wrong.
The EU are saying either align yourselves with us or you cant trade.
We, ll see.
The whole country should have got behind leave, formed a strong leave government and left. Instead the remainers have blocked our way out and, perhaps inadvertently, made any chance of a good deal very very low.
The EU sensed weakness and division within UK and stuck to their guns hoping we would chsnge our minds. Remainers not accepting the result are responsible for this.
The EU and remainers have between them caused no deal. It will be mayhem for a while but when dust settles , deals will be made and UK will continue to flourish outside EU.
Fact.
Do we have to play the videos yet again where the leave champions assured us we would not have to leave either the Market or the Customs union??
They did this many times and these promises were made publicly on and in the the media
That excuse is obsolete, as it didn't mention the possiblity of a no deal Brexit either.
Please stop flogging that dead horse.
It's a myth as Public promises were made to the public as inducements
Of course, they are EU trade deals. Whose did you think they were?
Given the huge size of the EU market, they can achieve better trade deals for us to use than any we could get alone. If we are lucky some might match the EU trade deal for us, but some won't.
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Flecc
We have had trade deals with countries in Europe since Roman times and probably before. They have bern developing throughout that time, apart from in the obvious... Wars etc.
We joined EEC in 1973 to develop trade yet now that same trade demands political affiliation towards control of laws and our behaviour and no doubt eventually our tax znd benefit systems.
Why is that flecc??
Yes, we obviously wish to trade with Europe and totally agree that as a trading block we would gain benefits but EU as you obviously know is way more than a trading block.
You fail to see, or perhaps accept, that every single real benefit we get is from the trading block. As you like to remind us the rest is advisory, at the moment.
If we stay we will lose the pound, our laws, our benefit system, our tax system all so we can keep the trade we have had for centuries.
Explain why political affiliation to EU is compulsory to gain trade deals.
It isnt with rest of world.
You and EU are fundamentally wrong on this. They pretend to stand for freedom and free trade but actually the EU is Empire building. Its wrong.
the world has moved on since WW2 so much so that trade with large countries like the USA and China are so lopsided that joining trading blocs is the way to go.
Japan and the EU are effectively joined to form the world largest trading bloc.
The EU is building a federal United States of Europe, which not merely the right thing to do but inevitable.
We did have and better too still somebody convinced a lot of people to throw it away.
It was called Membership of the EU and worth what little we paid for it many times over.
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That's not true and my past posts show that. I've repeatedly posted that it's the other benefits I really don't want to lose. The ECJ for example, the often more beneficial laws, the EU standards on Human Rights which are vastly superior to ours, the political influence in the world of that much larger bloc, the pacifism, the technical standards, the projects like Galileo and space research. Being a citizen and not a subject. And finally the strength of being a part of such a large unit in a world of giants.
Trade we'll do anyway to some degree or other as you've said yourself, that's the least of my concerns.
I know you won't accept the first paragraph, just as I don't accept your views on Europe and the EU. But it's my view and I have no intention of changing it.
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Japan negotiates with the EU since 1991 and only start trading with the new relationship now.
it will take Japan at least another 10 years to get to the point where its trade with the EU would reach the level that we trade with the EU.
TM's deal is more ambitious than EU/Japan deal.
The problem for the UK is simple: because we share a land border with the EU, we can have the deal but have to accept the NI backstop.
..the eu would have needed to be blind, deaf and dead not to have noticed the levels of angst in the UK...,so "sensed " , would be a be an understatement.
The point is was that there was never any discussion in the UK ,let alone a consensus as to what leave would, should ,or could mean. That is the tragedy, you are now facing into. Worse,you are dragging others like Ireland and Scotland along with you.
It only resulted in that ridiculous and utterly unenlightening "brexit means brexit".