Brexit, for once some facts.

anotherkiwi

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First. I will be very happy if Bombardier in Belfast have any of that order to fulfill. It will help to stem the job losses in the sector. Building of wings is an exacting activity. . So good. However there are caveats. The deal is not 4 billion to NI, substantial amounts will be elsewhere in other Airbus faactories including the newer facility to be constructed in the US as part of the deal.
Secondly, these deals are contingent on a number of factors, and the assumption that NI and Airbus follow EU rules may very well be part of it. Wing manufacturing is a highly specialised craft, but the expertise does reside also elsewhere in the Airbus empire.. Nantes for example.
Which just happens to be a lot closer to Toulouse too. So we could guess that a wing made in Nantes would cost less than one made in Belfast once logistics have been brought into the picture. And it wouldn't be subcontracting to a Canadian company which has had issues recently.
 
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oldgroaner

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,,,and yet another load of project fear ******* blown sky high...

Great news for Bombardier in Belfast where the wings are built as Airbus confirms £4bn order for 120 A220 jets
Boost for Belfast workers after US orders for 120 A220 jets confirmed

sorry Remoaners, nobody needs the EU !!
That is the silliest remark you have made so far
 
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Danidl

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Taken directly from their website,.. .
What is missing is that I failed to carry over the EU RDF logo which is proudly displayed in the next line.. Good try Tommie!.

"Bombardier Belfast is in receipt of R&D grant support from Invest NI for a Missionised Aircraft Modification project. Part-financed by the European Regional Development Fund under the Investment for Growth and Jobs Programme 20014-2020, the project aims to develop a significant modification to an aircraft horizontal stabiliser, thereby enabling the aircraft to carry a number of externally-mounted sensors and equipment for missionised use."
 
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tommie

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Taken directly from their website,.. .
What is missing is that I failed to carry over the EU RDF logo which is proudly displayed in the next line.. Good try Tommie!.

"Bombardier Belfast is in receipt of R&D grant support from Invest NI for a Missionised Aircraft Modification project. Part-financed by the European Regional Development Fund under the Investment for Growth and Jobs Programme 20014-2020, the project aims to develop a significant modification to an aircraft horizontal stabiliser, thereby enabling the aircraft to carry a number of externally-mounted sensors and equipment for missionised use."
Oh, you missed out on a logo,,,

anything to do with a £4bn order from the US then??

you`re struggling today Dan..
 

Danidl

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Oh, you missed out on a logo,,,

anything to do with a £4bn order from the US then??

you`re struggling today Dan..
Oh dear.. you must not be reading your posts . The total deal of 4 billion is with Airbus, not Bombardier ,and it requires building a factory in the USA.(.normal for this kind of thing)This will absorb some of the 4 billion, As will those other incidentals.. body electronics, engines
, , . While I am very happy for Belfast to get a slice of the action ,it could evaporate . Wing fabrication is a skilled craft, but not unique to any subcontractor.
Do you really think that when the CEO of Bombardier Belfast,was pitching for the contract he was stressing the benefits of Brexit?.
 
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oldgroaner

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[B]Channel 4 News[/B]‏Verified account @[B]Channel4News[/B]
Hull voted 67% to leave the EU

wow, and there was me thinking Hull was full of Bell-ends..:)

And do you know why? the vote was so strongly against the EU
In the 1970' s there were virtually no immigrants in the city. then the UK this happened
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/678180/Hull-ethnic-minorities-2004-one-ten-EU-migrants

The locals were upset about job losses, but the council loved it!
"
They pointed out the Polish supermarkets did not replace locally run grocers and butchers, but moved into derelict buildings, abandoned due to lack of money.
He said: "As recently as 2002, we were a city that had a falling population and a declining economy.
"We had to shut schools and tear down housing stock.
"Migration has helped us turn all this around.
"It has helped Hull grow and brought money into the city."
And who wanted these Eastern countries to join the EU?
John 'Major and the Conservatives.

And in the Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/21/tories-conservatives-eu-enlargement-bulgaria

In the early 1990s, when John Major was at war with his party over Europe, there was one issue on which, broadly speaking, he found common ground with the Eurosceptics. It was EU enlargement. Supporting expansion to incorporate the former communist nations of central and eastern Europe was the golden scenario.


"Wider, rather than deeper" was the catchphrase. By expanding eastwards – so the Tories believed – the European Union would become so big that political union would be impossible. A bigger EU would evolve into a looser union of free trading nation states, with weaker institutions at its centre. It was the way to put the brake on Franco-German and Benelux ambitions for ever closer union, while widening the internal market and promoting stability between east and west. The vision of Europe that Margaret Thatcher had outlined in her Bruges speech in 1988 would come into being.

In this as in everything else they have done, the Conservatives made a complete hash of it.
Hull voted out because the Conservatives filled the city with foreigners in the eyes of the public, and most locals actually beieved the foreigners would end up going home, one way or the other if they voted for Brexit.

That isn't going to happen is it? and be honest Brexit won't help Hull in any way, will it?

look at it logically the city was going downhill and 10,000 houses being demolished before unpopular foreigners came on the scene and to the rescue.
When you think about it that's pretty much the same story nationwide.
Without the immigrants, the country goes to the dogs.
What we need is to "Control Immigration" you reply.
Well and good, who can you trust to do that ?
The Conservatives?
You have to be joking if you look at their past performance.
Pigs might fly first.
 
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Zlatan

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And do you know why? the vote was so strongly against the EU
In the 1970' s there were virtually no immigrants in the city. then the UK this happened
https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/678180/Hull-ethnic-minorities-2004-one-ten-EU-migrants

The locals were upset about job losses, but the council loved it!
"
They pointed out the Polish supermarkets did not replace locally run grocers and butchers, but moved into derelict buildings, abandoned due to lack of money.
He said: "As recently as 2002, we were a city that had a falling population and a declining economy.
"We had to shut schools and tear down housing stock.
"Migration has helped us turn all this around.
"It has helped Hull grow and brought money into the city."
And who wanted these Eastern countries to join the EU?
John 'Major and the Conservatives.

And in the Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/21/tories-conservatives-eu-enlargement-bulgaria

In the early 1990s, when John Major was at war with his party over Europe, there was one issue on which, broadly speaking, he found common ground with the Eurosceptics. It was EU enlargement. Supporting expansion to incorporate the former communist nations of central and eastern Europe was the golden scenario.


"Wider, rather than deeper" was the catchphrase. By expanding eastwards – so the Tories believed – the European Union would become so big that political union would be impossible. A bigger EU would evolve into a looser union of free trading nation states, with weaker institutions at its centre. It was the way to put the brake on Franco-German and Benelux ambitions for ever closer union, while widening the internal market and promoting stability between east and west. The vision of Europe that Margaret Thatcher had outlined in her Bruges speech in 1988 would come into being.

In this as in everything else they have done, the Conservatives made a complete hash of it.
Hull voted out because the Conservatives filled the city with foreigners in the eyes of the public, and most locals actually beieved the foreigners would end up going home, one way or the other if they voted for Brexit.

That isn't going to happen is it? and be honest Brexit won't help Hull in any way, will it?

look at it logically the city was going downhill and 10,000 houses being demolished before unpopular foreigners came on the scene and to the rescue.
When you think about it that's pretty much the same story nationwide.
Without the immigrants, the country goes to the dogs.
What we need is to "Control Immigration" you reply.
Well and good, who can you trust to do that ?
The Conservatives?
You have to be joking if you look at their past performance.
Pigs might fly first.
Why are so many remainers hung up about why leavers voted as they did? It actually makes no difference whatsoever. It is very pretentious and conceited to offer explanatiins of why people didnt vote as you did.You simply do not know.
OG, you havent got a clue why Hull voted leave to an extent of 67%.Its simply remainers looking at it from their own viewpoint and making massive assumptions in an effort to discredit a whole group of people. You want to explain it away with they were racist, or misinformed.
Why is it so important for you to group all leavers together and label them.
The reasons people vote as they do is up to them, personal and there are hundreds of reasons why folk voted either way.
 

Fingers

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Feb 9, 2016
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Soubry getting pelters

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/anna-soubry-drowned-out-by-nazi-taunts-from-probrexit-protesters-during-bbc-interview-a4032531.html

She has done this to herself sadly. Years of calling people who voted out racists and thick will eventually make them turn on her.

She will hide behind her privilege now and incant the ghost of Jo Cox. But it's her that started this nastiness.

I hope it's just words and doesn't escalate any further but this does show the tensions that are out there.
 

Woosh

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May 19, 2012
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She has done this to herself sadly.
I totally disagree.
Abusers are abusers. There is no place for that kind of language in a political debate.
 

Fingers

Esteemed Pedelecer
Feb 9, 2016
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I totally disagree.
Abusers are abusers. There is no place for that kind of language in a political debate.

I agree but you have it on here as well. Tom/Jon whoever he is has always used Nazi as an insult.

It's the recourse of the dull witted.

But as I say. She started this hateful diatribe.
 

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
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I agree in principle Woosh but she has used language inappropriate to both her position and the situation.
It needs to stop before it turns worse.She should know better. She didnt.
 
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oldgroaner

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For the record ,I simply reported the situation in Hull Without passing judgement.
No doubt others will do that and put the usual spin on it.

No assumptions involved on my part simply a report of how people have reacted here and why they did so, and the circumstances behind their decision
I wonder why people find that hard to comprehend?

People here felt threatened by immigrants, and reacted against the EU
nothing complicated about that, it was a choice they cheerfully made.
 
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Zlatan

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For the record ,I simply reported the situation in Hull Without passing judgement.
No doubt others will do that and put the usual spin on it.

No assumptions involved on my part simply a report of how people have reacted here and why they did so, and the circumstances behind their decision
I wonder why people find that hard to comprehend?

People here felt threatened by immigrants, and reacted against the EU
nothing complicated about that, it was a choice they cheerfully made.
"Why they did so"

You havent got a clue. Absolute speculation, generalisation and then compartmantalise. Then wrong conclusion.
Stop playing psychologist. Yes, explain background and history. I, ll bet half voters havent a clue what happened in 70s and others dont care.
 

Danidl

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Soubry getting pelters

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/anna-soubry-drowned-out-by-nazi-taunts-from-probrexit-protesters-during-bbc-interview-a4032531.html

She has done this to herself sadly. Years of calling people who voted out racists and thick will eventually make them turn on her.

She will hide behind her privilege now and incant the ghost of Jo Cox. But it's her that started this nastiness.

I hope it's just words and doesn't escalate any further but this does show the tensions that are out there.
I can believe the import of your last sentence..there is a lot of tensions out there. Could you not also accept that similar tensions even more deep seated exist in the border communities of NI ?
 
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jonathan.agnew

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Whats more interesting!!
The largest `Brexit` related petition vote....

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Even for a wide-eyed brexiter (with a precarious relationship with reality), you really do get carried away by populist drivel. Supports my hunch that it will take some averse conditioning to change leavers minds
 

Fingers

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Feb 9, 2016
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I can believe the import of your last sentence..there is a lot of tensions out there. Could you not also accept that similar tensions even more deep seated exist in the border communities of NI ?

No not really. I see Leo posturing and sabre rattling but I haven’t heard of any change in the attitudes of the border folk.

Have you?

Any return to the any semblance of trouble will be laid firmlay at Dublin’s door. His rhetoric is one that sounds like an enemy preparing for war.
 
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tommie

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Mar 13, 2013
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I can believe the import of your last sentence..there is a lot of tensions out there. Could you not also accept that similar tensions even more deep seated exist in the border communities of NI ?
Rubbish....Total Rubbish..

did i say RUBBISH!!

another offering from the Project Fear Factory

i`m, as near to the border as you are -

total nonsense
 

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