Your previous statement makes no sense. It’s like someone asking, do you drive a Ford or a Skoda, and you replying, I’ll have a cup of tea please.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
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it's consistency.
If you think it's not right to verbally abuse Ms Soubry then don't make excuse for the abusers.
I wasn’t. I don’t condone abuse. I am saying that there is no consistency in dealing with abusers. That point has been made very clarion In every one of my posts, yet you can’t seen to read it. Why are you having difficulty understanding?
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you said 'She has done this to herself sadly. '
so it's her fault?
Show me the post where I said that. You are quoting words written by another contributor to the thread (Fingers in post #43730 to be exact) not me. This is a very good example of how you read information, misinterpret the meaning and then regurgitate it as garbage on the pages of the forum.
You are a fool. That’s not abuse, that is fact.
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I mixed up the quotes and apologise for doing so, but in essence, is your position much different from Fingers when you said 'if the Jackboots and slash-peaked cap fits' ?
Thank you for the apology, which I accept. I would also like to offer you an apology for referring to you as a fool.
Right, with that out of the way. I think Anna Soubry’s stance is rather dictatorial and undemocratic. A rather Jackbooted approach to politics I would say.
You can't keep prodding a wasps nest then when you get stung act surprised.
She may well be entitled to say what she wants to whom and when and how. But when it comes back don't act the victim. As far as I'm aware no crimes have been broken.
I'm not defending these far right arseholes but I do defend their right to free speech.
How nice for him to be able to live in Kent and Provence. Would that have been a realistic option without the EU?A stirring message from a Journalist who lives in France
Where is this Nazi Tyranny we are supposedly going to fight?
Truly this idiot must regard Brexit voters as imbeciles, with his comparison of fighting Nazism and tyranny to the EU
Leo McKinstry (born 1962) is a British journalist, historian and author.
Born in Belfast, Northern Ireland, McKinstry was educated at Portora Royal School, Enniskillen, and Sidney Sussex College, Cambridge, where he graduated with a degree in History in 1985.[1][2] He writes regularly for several newspapers in the United Kingdom, including the Daily Mail,[3] Daily Express,[4] and The Sunday Telegraph.[5] He often writes about issues relating to immigration and the European Union, being a strong supporter of Brexit. His books include a biography of the Victorian Prime Minister, Lord Rosebery.
In the early 1990s McKinstry was a Labour councillor in Islington and worked as a parliamentary aide to Labour politician Harriet Harman, later criticising what he described as her "dangerous gospel of feminist fascism".[6] Losing his seat on Islington council in 1994, he was working for Labour front bencher Doug Henderson when he announced the following year, via an article in The Spectator, that he no longer supported the party.[7] Subsequently, he was a regular columnist in both the Daily Mail and the Daily Express.
McKinstry is married and lives in Kent and Provence.[8]
European Union is dangerous: Donald Trump can fix things
Nigel Farage as our Washington Ambassador isn't a bad idea, says Leo McKinstry
This does amaze me.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/08/mps-must-stop-wishful-thinking-and-back-may-on-brexit-irish-deputy-pm-simon-coveney
Foreign governments trying to influence our parliament. Are people so naive that they think the German government is doing this from the goodness of its heart and Ireland is just being altruistic all of a sudden?
Mays deal is shizen for us but great for the EU. Look at how desperately they want us to take it. Wto deal should be started as soon as the vote fails. It will give the EU a chance to come back but more importantly a bit of time to get some things in order.
And as for the 200 idiot MPs signing a Neville Chamberlain style bit of paper saying we cant have a Wto deal...what kind of fools are they?
Seriously. That is so stupid its almost treasonable. Sign ANY deal? What does that even mean? Sign away all our fishing rights? Sign away our opportunity to trade freely with the word? Sign away everything? But no wto deal?
Ridiculous.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/08/mps-must-stop-wishful-thinking-and-back-may-on-brexit-irish-deputy-pm-simon-coveney
Foreign governments trying to influence our parliament. Are people so naive that they think the German government is doing this from the goodness of its heart and Ireland is just being altruistic all of a sudden?
Mays deal is shizen for us but great for the EU. Look at how desperately they want us to take it. Wto deal should be started as soon as the vote fails. It will give the EU a chance to come back but more importantly a bit of time to get some things in order.
And as for the 200 idiot MPs signing a Neville Chamberlain style bit of paper saying we cant have a Wto deal...what kind of fools are they?
Seriously. That is so stupid its almost treasonable. Sign ANY deal? What does that even mean? Sign away all our fishing rights? Sign away our opportunity to trade freely with the word? Sign away everything? But no wto deal?
Ridiculous.
As I said, the protesters wanted to abuse her a lot more than calling her 'nazi' and none of us should come to their defence and justify their behaviour.
As far as the wasp nest goes, I find that there are plenty of valid reasons for wanting to leave the EU: the US of E, EU army, various common policies: trade, tariff on coffee, sugar, anti-dumping levy on Chinese e-bikes, CAP, fisheries etc, but none of us should defend the racists, sexists and isolationists that join the brexit camp.
I can't see it's undemocratic. We are a parliamentary democracy in which MPs act according to their conscience and where every citizen, including MPs and Cabinet Ministers, are entitled to have their own view and express it.
Anna Soubry is a remainer and is not bound by a majority in her constituency voting Leave. She also represents all those in her constituency who voted Remain and is entitled to prefer their choice.
.
Who is defending their abuse?
It's her vitriol that has made some folk angry. They are not following Liz Kendall around even though she is as big a remainer as Soubry.
Soubry has been inciting this hatred for some time.
Tell me about Soubry's vitriol.
Is it not likely that because Soubry is a conservative MP, Liz Kendall Labour that conservative right-wingers treat Soubry as a traitor?
I can't speak for them I'm afraid. Although I can call them *****
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From the BBC
"
"We write to express our serious concerns about the deteriorating public order and security situation in and around the exterior of the Parliamentary estate including College Green," the letter, co-ordinated by Labour MP Stephen Doughty, read
"After months of peaceful and calm protests by groups representing a range of political views on Brexit, an ugly element of individuals with strong far-right and extreme right connections - which your officers are well aware of - have increasingly engaged in intimidatory and potentially criminal acts targeting Members of Parliament, journalists, activists and members of the public."
The letter said there appeared to be a "lack of co-ordination in the response from the police and appropriate authorities".
It said that it was "utterly unacceptable for Members of Parliament, journalists, activists and members of the public to be subject to abuse, intimidation and threatening behaviour and indeed potentially serious offences while they go about their work".
The abuse received by Ms Soubry was widely condemned.
Anna Soubry: "This is astonishing. This is what has happened to our country."
Ms Soubry, MP for Broxtowe and supporter of a fresh Brexit referendum, said she objected to being called a Nazi.
Sky News presenter Kay Burley said the "increasingly vile, aggressive and intimidating" abuse had forced her to change her own route to Parliament and she now had to have security protection.
She told BBC Radio 5 Live she had been interviewed three times by the police about the situation, but the protesters knew their rights and what they could and couldn't get away with.
But she added: "How far does it have to escalate before the police have to take it seriously?"
Labour's Mary Creagh said the "really vile, misogynistic thuggery" that had been seen was not an isolated incident.
She pointed to the murder of MP Jo Cox, who was killed in her West Yorkshire constituency by right-wing extremist Thomas Mair in June 2016.
Commons Speaker John Bercow said he was "concerned" about a "pattern of protest" targeting female MPs and journalists and called it a "type of fascism".
In his letter to the Met Police chief on Tuesday, he said he recognised it was "a difficult job striking the balance between allowing peaceful protests and intervening when things turn sour".
But he added: "It's one thing demonstrating from a distance with placards, or calling out slogans - and another, where the protester invades the personal space of a member, subjects him or her to a tirade of menacing, racist, sexist and misogynistic abuse, and follows them back to their place of work."
Brexit Secretary Stephen Barclay said the "appalling scenes" outside Parliament, where Ms Soubry had been "disgracefully treated", showed how divisive the Brexit process had been.
"There is a balance always to be struck between defending the right of freedom of speech and ensuring that there are boundaries around that," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.
Labour MP Jess Phillips, who has previously spoken out against online abuse, told the BBC's Victoria Derbyshire programme that some protesters were "organised right-wing groups" trying to "scare our politicians into making decisions based on fringe views".
"People deserve to be safe at work," the Birmingham Yardley MP said. "I didn't come here to be bullied by far-right bullies, far-left bullies, or anyone, we came here to do what we felt was best."
'Unacceptable'
Also on Monday, political commentator Owen Jones published a video on Twitter that he had recorded while being followed and shouted at by a group of protesters outside Parliament.
Last month, a video emerged of prominent Brexiteer Michael Gove being accosted by a protester dressed as Santa as he walked to Parliament.
Ms Soubry has been in touch with the parliamentary authorities responsible for security.
Mr Bercow said he was aware of protests in recent weeks around the Palace of Westminster "involving aggressive and threatening behaviour towards members by assorted groups that have donned the yellow vests seen in France" - a reference to last year's "gilet jaune" anti-government demonstrations.
No 10 said the incident was "unacceptable" and MPs "should be free to do their jobs without any form of intimidation".
A Downing Street spokesman said there were laws dealing with public order offences and cases of harassment and threatening behaviour.
The BBC and other broadcasters have set up temporary studios on College Green ahead of the Commons vote on Theresa May's Brexit deal, expected on 15 January.
The BBC's assistant political editor Norman Smith said some MPs had expressed unease privately about being interviewed there, given the frequency and vehemence of the protests.
Unfortunate and unlikely to get better as time goes on and imitators crawl out of the woodwork encouraged by the publicity.
The Police have a very difficult job to keep the lid on these nut cases without making them appear hero's to other loonies who so far have been quiet.
"
"We write to express our serious concerns about the deteriorating public order and security situation in and around the exterior of the Parliamentary estate including College Green," the letter, co-ordinated by Labour MP Stephen Doughty, read
"After months of peaceful and calm protests by groups representing a range of political views on Brexit, an ugly element of individuals with strong far-right and extreme right connections - which your officers are well aware of - have increasingly engaged in intimidatory and potentially criminal acts targeting Members of Parliament, journalists, activists and members of the public."
The letter said there appeared to be a "lack of co-ordination in the response from the police and appropriate authorities".
It said that it was "utterly unacceptable for Members of Parliament, journalists, activists and members of the public to be subject to abuse, intimidation and threatening behaviour and indeed potentially serious offences while they go about their work".
The abuse received by Ms Soubry was widely condemned.
Anna Soubry: "This is astonishing. This is what has happened to our country."
Ms Soubry, MP for Broxtowe and supporter of a fresh Brexit referendum, said she objected to being called a Nazi.
Sky News presenter Kay Burley said the "increasingly vile, aggressive and intimidating" abuse had forced her to change her own route to Parliament and she now had to have security protection.
She told BBC Radio 5 Live she had been interviewed three times by the police about the situation, but the protesters knew their rights and what they could and couldn't get away with.
But she added: "How far does it have to escalate before the police have to take it seriously?"
Labour's Mary Creagh said the "really vile, misogynistic thuggery" that had been seen was not an isolated incident.
She pointed to the murder of MP Jo Cox, who was killed in her West Yorkshire constituency by right-wing extremist Thomas Mair in June 2016.
Commons Speaker John Bercow said he was "concerned" about a "pattern of protest" targeting female MPs and journalists and called it a "type of fascism".
In his letter to the Met Police chief on Tuesday, he said he recognised it was "a difficult job striking the balance between allowing peaceful protests and intervening when things turn sour".
But he added: "It's one thing demonstrating from a distance with placards, or calling out slogans - and another, where the protester invades the personal space of a member, subjects him or her to a tirade of menacing, racist, sexist and misogynistic abuse, and follows them back to their place of work."
Brexit Secretary Stephen Barclay said the "appalling scenes" outside Parliament, where Ms Soubry had been "disgracefully treated", showed how divisive the Brexit process had been.
"There is a balance always to be struck between defending the right of freedom of speech and ensuring that there are boundaries around that," he told BBC Radio 4's Today programme.
Labour MP Jess Phillips, who has previously spoken out against online abuse, told the BBC's Victoria Derbyshire programme that some protesters were "organised right-wing groups" trying to "scare our politicians into making decisions based on fringe views".
"People deserve to be safe at work," the Birmingham Yardley MP said. "I didn't come here to be bullied by far-right bullies, far-left bullies, or anyone, we came here to do what we felt was best."
'Unacceptable'
Also on Monday, political commentator Owen Jones published a video on Twitter that he had recorded while being followed and shouted at by a group of protesters outside Parliament.
Last month, a video emerged of prominent Brexiteer Michael Gove being accosted by a protester dressed as Santa as he walked to Parliament.
Ms Soubry has been in touch with the parliamentary authorities responsible for security.
Mr Bercow said he was aware of protests in recent weeks around the Palace of Westminster "involving aggressive and threatening behaviour towards members by assorted groups that have donned the yellow vests seen in France" - a reference to last year's "gilet jaune" anti-government demonstrations.
No 10 said the incident was "unacceptable" and MPs "should be free to do their jobs without any form of intimidation".
A Downing Street spokesman said there were laws dealing with public order offences and cases of harassment and threatening behaviour.
The BBC and other broadcasters have set up temporary studios on College Green ahead of the Commons vote on Theresa May's Brexit deal, expected on 15 January.
The BBC's assistant political editor Norman Smith said some MPs had expressed unease privately about being interviewed there, given the frequency and vehemence of the protests.
Unfortunate and unlikely to get better as time goes on and imitators crawl out of the woodwork encouraged by the publicity.
The Police have a very difficult job to keep the lid on these nut cases without making them appear hero's to other loonies who so far have been quiet.
Along with hospitals recruiting volunteer care staff to plug gaps on the cheap, now Essex Police are looking for volunteer detectives.
Volunteer detectives could investigate murders and rapes
Volunteer detectives could investigate murders and rapes
Perhaps you can explain where the Jackboots and expressions dictatorial and undemocratic apply?
You can't have it both ways, either politicians are fair game to be agressively verbally threatened, or they are not.
She wants not to be accosted in the street and called names, do you think bullying and itimidating women in public is OK?
So she hasn't the right to expect the Police to intervene?
What happened to the laws on disturbing the Peace?
"
Disturbing the peace, also known as breach of the peace, is a criminal offense that occurs when a person engages in some form of disorderly conduct, such as fighting or causing excessively loud noise. When a person's words or conduct jeopardizes another person's right to peace and tranquility, he or she may be charged with disturbing the peace.
What Constitutes Disturbing the Peace?
Disturbing the peace laws exist to prevent people from disturbing the peace of others while they are tending to their daily business and personal affairs. These laws vary from state to state, but they typically prohibit:
- Fighting or challenging someone to fight in a public place;
- Using offensive words in a public place likely to incite violence;
- Shouting in a public place intending to incite violence or unlawful activity;
she is certainly entitled to her views and to be able to express them. That is what happens in a democratic country. But the point is that she is using her position as a democratically elected representative to try and overturn what was a democratic decision by the citizens of the UK to leave the EU. A choice that was freely given to them by the very MP's who are now trying to deny it. People took that decision despite all the warnings of catastrophe and doom that were force fed to them . So the least they should do is honor it. While I certainly don't agree with the way she is being treated by a very small minority, I think it is an inevitable result of some feeling that they are going to be stitched up by the very people who represent them.