Yes, wine making seemed to be part of Italy's chemical industry back then.
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Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
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I can believe that and I know that French wines in the UK and probably elsewhere around the world have become more affordable in recent years, as they had to in order to compete with some fine wines from the new world in particular.
A French close friend rents space in an environmentally-controlled cave where he keeps his collection of fine wine acquisitions from a lifetime of interest in that sphere.
Living large chunks of my life in Spain, I have over the years acquired a taste for Spanish wines, some of which are really great, and which are still very cheap today but when I visit Paris, my friend always has some truly excellent French examples selected for my visit. I always enthuse politely which satisfies his ego as he really considers himself an expert which I suppose he can fairly claim, having spent 50+ years collecting and sampling the stuff!
There are farms just a short drive from my place in Spain where the local farmers produce wine, lots of it, which they sell very cheaply - no bottles - you just take along empty, 8-litre water bottles or similar and stand back while the farmer fills up as many as you want.
These guys don't need the money but they don't like to see any resource going to waste and it satisfies their need to cheat the revenue out of a few Euros tax.
Wine like this doesn't keep long so one guy will use his car to load up lots of containers gathered from his friends and/or neighbours and they happily pay slightly more for it to him, to cover his diesel and for his trouble on their behalf. It's a great example of the co-operative spirit, lost many years ago in UK communities. I should point out that this is not wine of the highest quality but it satisfies those on a low income with a need to relax or whatever.
Tom
Similarly, the apprentice in a machine shop I worked at was often referred to in that manner - 'Oi bungalow, get the kettle on; it's time for us grafters to 'ave a brew!'Sounds more like the Site Foreman's instruction to a Yorkshire Brickie on a Building site to me!
It took me a little while to grasp that 'bungalow' meant 'having nothing up top'!
Tom
I can believe that and I know that French wines in the UK and probably elsewhere around the world have become more affordable in recent years, as they had to in order to compete with some fine wines from the new world in particular.
A French close friend rents space in an environmentally-controlled cave where he keeps his collection of fine wine acquisitions from a lifetime of interest in that sphere.
Living large chunks of my life in Spain, I have over the years acquired a taste for Spanish wines, some of which are really great, and which are still very cheap today but when I visit Paris, my friend always has some truly excellent French examples selected for my visit. I always enthuse politely which satisfies his ego as he really considers himself an expert which I suppose he can fairly claim, having spent 50+ years collecting and sampling the stuff!
There are farms just a short drive from my place in Spain where the local farmers produce wine, lots of it, which they sell very cheaply - no bottles - you just take along empty, 8-litre water bottles or similar and stand back while the farmer fills up as many as you want.
These guys don't need the money but they don't like to see any resource going to waste and it satisfies their need to cheat the revenue out of a few Euros tax.
Wine like this doesn't keep long so one guy will use his car to load up lots of containers gathered from his friends and/or neighbours and they happily pay slightly more for it to him, to cover his diesel and for his trouble on their behalf. It's a great example of the co-operative spirit, lost many years ago in UK communities. I should point out that this is not wine of the highest quality but it satisfies those on a low income with a need to relax or whatever.
Tom
So basically you're barely half a step away from the white ace. Explains a lot tbh.
How do you explain these promises then, fingers?
There appear to at least six politicians "expected us to leave and all of a sudden our cows would be shitting gold."
And this is the propaganda they used on dupes like you, have you forgotten already?
You speak for them, do you?
Which faction? you can't speak for them all, as some will accept May's deal
How do you explain these promises then, fingers?
There appear to at least six politicians "expected us to leave and all of a sudden our cows would be shitting gold."
And this is the propaganda they used on dupes like you, have you forgotten already?
I have more contempt for all those characters than I do of you.
The path to a second referendum.....according to the ECJ lawyer.....
We should be able to continue to benefit from the perks we presently enjoy – such as the £100m a week rebate and the control over our borders that comes from us opting out of the Schengen agreement on free movement. Politicians know that giving these up would make it much harder to justify staying in the EU – and that’s why only last week Michael Gove stated categorically that “we would be forced to accept far tougher terms than we have now. Keeping the rebate? Forget about it.” But we know now – as he should have known then – that this is highly unlikely to be true.
The opinion also clears the legislative path to remaining. One option is for MPs to just cancel the article 50 notice without a further referendum. That is a course the advocate general has recognised is open to parliament. And the 2016 referendum parliament enacted was only advisory, after all.
Faced with that choice today MPs would undoubtedly reject it. But the European Research Group’s failure to gather the 48 letters to start a Conservative leadership context proves just how little support there is in parliament for a no-deal Brexit. If MPs find themselves approaching the 29 March 2019 deadline without a deal, the appeal of a simple backstop to avoid the no-deal precipice may become overwhelming. And they may reflect on this paradox: if the vote in June 2016 was legitimate, how can we contemplate another referendum? And if it was illegitimate, why do we need another one?
The difficulty with the alternative route – a second referendum – is one of timing. Even after this morning’s opinion we still need the permission of the other EU member states to extend time to hold a second referendum. But, if the political will exists, a referendum could be held in short order. The referendum in Greece on whether to accept the bailout conditions took place only a week after its parliament voted for one. And the opinion gives the EU every reason to extend the time. A choice to remain made by the people may well be considered a stronger mandate than a decision to remain made by MPs alone.
It would be an act of great hubris to pretend any of this was simple, or settled, or done. There are formidable obstacles in the way of MPs seeking to force through a decision against the wishes of the government. We learn that, if nothing else, from the attempts to force the government to disclose its legal advice on the Irish backstop. But there is no denying the path to remain just got easier.
KudosDave
We should be able to continue to benefit from the perks we presently enjoy – such as the £100m a week rebate and the control over our borders that comes from us opting out of the Schengen agreement on free movement. Politicians know that giving these up would make it much harder to justify staying in the EU – and that’s why only last week Michael Gove stated categorically that “we would be forced to accept far tougher terms than we have now. Keeping the rebate? Forget about it.” But we know now – as he should have known then – that this is highly unlikely to be true.
The opinion also clears the legislative path to remaining. One option is for MPs to just cancel the article 50 notice without a further referendum. That is a course the advocate general has recognised is open to parliament. And the 2016 referendum parliament enacted was only advisory, after all.
Faced with that choice today MPs would undoubtedly reject it. But the European Research Group’s failure to gather the 48 letters to start a Conservative leadership context proves just how little support there is in parliament for a no-deal Brexit. If MPs find themselves approaching the 29 March 2019 deadline without a deal, the appeal of a simple backstop to avoid the no-deal precipice may become overwhelming. And they may reflect on this paradox: if the vote in June 2016 was legitimate, how can we contemplate another referendum? And if it was illegitimate, why do we need another one?
The difficulty with the alternative route – a second referendum – is one of timing. Even after this morning’s opinion we still need the permission of the other EU member states to extend time to hold a second referendum. But, if the political will exists, a referendum could be held in short order. The referendum in Greece on whether to accept the bailout conditions took place only a week after its parliament voted for one. And the opinion gives the EU every reason to extend the time. A choice to remain made by the people may well be considered a stronger mandate than a decision to remain made by MPs alone.
It would be an act of great hubris to pretend any of this was simple, or settled, or done. There are formidable obstacles in the way of MPs seeking to force through a decision against the wishes of the government. We learn that, if nothing else, from the attempts to force the government to disclose its legal advice on the Irish backstop. But there is no denying the path to remain just got easier.
KudosDave
Maybe they'l stop buying our stuff,well actually chinese stuff imported and then sold onto the EU. Therein lies the problem ,the UK is a strong trading nation,we are good at buying and selling things,not so good at making them...it is just as easy to ship from China to Rotterdam as China to Felixstowe.
KudosDave
I don't know. Maybe we have given up making things too soon because we assume that stuff is made cheaper elsewhere without really investigating.
If we do that they'll stop buying our stuff
The 27 EU countries share their loss but we lose all of ours. They can each shrug off their small share, we'd be crippled.
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Why have you contempt for me? it isn't my fault that you post like an idiot and don't know what you are talking about.
Is this an attempt to advance the theory that you actually think for yourself?
Let's see now, how about proving it by engaging in pragmatic debate with a stupendously convincing argument to prove Brexit is a good idea?
We can't compete with the Orient in the mass market.
We can make a Brompton which sells in small quantities at premium prices, but we can't make huge numbers of Dahons at low prices.
So the high end market potentially suits us better, but it's already fully occupied by recognised others in every sphere and we've fallen way behind.
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I guess its contemptuous posts like these that lead me down that avenue. That and the rudeness I spose. The lack of grace doesn't help too. Plus there's the utter lack of self awareness. The constant spamming of threads with random nonsense can be irksome. Your lack of wit. Your misunderstanding of what words mean. The essay length posts of drivel. The constant repetition. Actually now I come to think of it there's quite a lot.