it's correct if we have a deal, that is we pay exit costs and get 2 years transition.
If we don't agree to pay, it is going to be very different on the 30th March next year.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
If we don't agree to pay, it is going to be very different on the 30th March next year.
I most certainly do NOT think those who support brexit are all alike and there is only one reason.
However, I do find it difficult to discuss why people support, or supported, brexit in person because I know so few. Of those who work in the same office, only one says he voted brexit. He now regrets it deeply and, if it goes ahead, will almost certainly suffer quite severely on the financial front due to the nature of his business.
Not at all sure if it is OK to post quotes/references to the Guardian?
Angela Merkel admits collapse of Brexit talks cannot be ruled out
Chancellor’s comments made to German finance chiefs as UK-EU negotiations face deadlock
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/04/eu27-to-offer-theresa-may-a-carrot-and-stick-approach-to-brexit-chequers-plan-irish-border
Angela Merkel admits collapse of Brexit talks cannot be ruled out
Chancellor’s comments made to German finance chiefs as UK-EU negotiations face deadlock
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/04/eu27-to-offer-theresa-may-a-carrot-and-stick-approach-to-brexit-chequers-plan-irish-border
Most the ones I pick up as unashamed pro Brexiters via cricket facebook feeds are quite charming but eccentric village club players - ranging between Tim Brook-Talor (character he played in The Goodies) and Captain Mainwairing types who were swept up in adoration of posh wide boy Farage promising them a return to a Ripping Yarns utopian British Empire Golden Age ... and keep believing it come what may.
I see fingers regards your post as funny, and yet hasn't any suggestions of how this country is going to make it's way outside of the cosy Marketplace of the EU
Now fingers, what exactly have you to offer other than scoffing?
You clearly don't know what the EU can and can't do, assume it abuses powers it has never had, and so far haven't suggested how the incompetent Government of this country is going to make Brexit a success.
British Management are the worst in the western world and our investors put their money into anywhere but here, as that is far safer and guarantees a quick return.
All the successful Companies here are Foreign owned depending on access to the EU.
Who will replace them when they leave, or perhaps you can explain why they will stay?
The answer is that you haven't got a clue have you?
It's just a Fairy Tale that you want to come true.
This is your opportunity to actually offer something more than hope with an indication of what you expect to happen.
From the Telegraph this morning
"
Lord Mervyn King blasts 'incompetent' preparations for Brexit and says Government has no credible bargaining position
Hardly a revelation!
"
Lord Mervyn King blasts 'incompetent' preparations for Brexit and says Government has no credible bargaining position
Hardly a revelation!
Maybe it is to at least some of the Telegraph reading population?
King is lazy and coward. He presided over NR and RBS. He was a loud brexiter and now sensing the wind turning, he is looking for someone else to blame.
If he wants WTO, he should say 'pay £39 biillions, concrete over half of Dover and build a hard border in NI'.
Very descriptive 'Wicky' and very accurate too, in my experience!
I have come across a whole raft of that ilk whose aspirations equate to a return to 1950s Britain, a country then with relatively few foreign people and totally incorrectly immortalised in the TV production of 'The darling buds of May' with David Jason and Pam Ferris.
Most of the world has moved on since then but clearly there are some who cannot seem to accept change.
Tom
He couldn't just retire gracefully, no longer required by government or by his former profession - he cannot seem to accept that his former celebrity status has now disappeared and with it the automatic invites to those huge, posh dinners at Mansion House and the like.
Maybe he should ask the BBC if he can be included in one of those celebrity editions of quizshows they are always purveying, or perhaps that ITV show for second-rate, faded talent and 'wannabe' youngsters with over-white teeth, 'Get me out of here'.
Fortunately, no-one will pay any attention to anything he has to say about political or economic matters.
Tom
Spot on flecc this is exactly the way I see things. I am not a massive fan of the EU it has lots of areas that need reform but I voted remain because I could see a lot of problems and risks if we leave and very few gains to be had if we chose to do so.
I also thought the country had done reasonably well (5th or 6th largest economy etc) since we had been in it, and at the time of the referendum I think we had one of the highest if not the highest growth rates in the West.
Although I don't know for certain, nobody does, but I think if we had voted to remain then the growth rate would have either continued to increase or stay at a much higher level, as confidence would have been high having got rid of the uncertainty, and companies would have been prepared to invest.
The country now would be a lot better off than it is had we voted remain and the powers that be would have been able to tackle many of the things that require tackling here. Instead Brexit is taking up virtually all the Government and Civil Service band width and very little else seems to be getting done.
I think I read somewhere that a couple of years or so before the referendum in any poll, the EU was eighth or lower in the list of things people were concerned about, So how on earth did we get ourselves into this mess?
Around half the people I know and who I have discussed Brexit with voted leave and the other half remain. Most of the leavers I know would still vote leave as they don't believe how bad things might get. The ones that have a bit of an interest don't believe any of the dire warnings that have been given.
I can see why they think this way, as some of the claims George Osborn made at the lead up to the vote were nearly as bad as some of the things said by the leave side.
I really hope we stay in the EU but I can't see that happening and I am very worried that we might leave on WTO rules and end up in a right mess that could end in anything.
David Cameron has a lot to answer for he was warned by many of his own side not to call a referendum, but he put his party ahead of the country. He may go down in history as the man that broke up the UK.
It certainly isn't out of the question and for the sake of those that come after us, I sincerely hope that the UK remains and contributes to the future growth and prosperity of the EU, perhaps even a more formal USofE.
Tom
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Someone has drawn up a pictorial diagram of how UKippers and the extreme right view the rest of the world and it strikes me as being uncannily accurate!
Tom
Tom
The real problem is the fact that the people who voted leave knew what they wanted, as they were made tempting offers, and the EU had been blamed for everything from the weather to declining living standards.
They somehow shy of placing responsibility for the effects of Austerity on the Government that imposed it, and even more incredibly imagine that these clowns can somehow make a success of Brexit.
Not only can they not do that, they have no intention of doing so.
And the truth is that literally no one has a Pragmatic , costed business plan to make this miracle happen.
You couldn't get a Bank loan to open a Whelk Stall at the seaside on such a non starter of an idea.
The problem is that they never bothered to check the facts available to them about what the EU is and does, and how much we are reliant on the support it gives.
They have bought into an idea with no idea of the costs and consequences, and fallen for the lies fed to them, especially the ones saying everything was going to be a "Walk in the park"
So the situation is this
People voted for something on the basis of Empty promises that cannot be achieved by those making said promises who have since absconded to avoid responsibility.
And they have no idea of the consequences awaiting them, but refuse to accept that this is a bad idea.
In the meantime the idiot fringe Vultures of the Tory party are rooting for the most damaging situation they can create, to feed off the Corpse of the Economy.
There will be hell to pay when things inevitably go wrong
It should be patently obvious that we are not and will not be prepared to prosper under the conditions we will face
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Humour from a reader in the Independent
"
James Curtis9 hours ago
Now as you all know we have been experiencing a lot of turbulence recently as the cabin staff have been having a little domestic and hurling a lot of stuff at each other. But dont worry please. Second we have had to dismiss both pilot and copilot since they are Polish and if you look out the window you can see both parachuting intothe Atlantic ocean. But please dont worry. If any of you have flown a Boeing 747 please come to the cockpit area where we will upgrade your seat allocation to pilot. If there are no pilots on board -perhaps you have had some time on smartphone flight apps. Just think how envious your friends will be when you tell them you flew a Boeing 747 loaded with 500 passengers. Sorry I need to correct that - when you tell them you glided a 747. We have had to ditch the fuel as it is not WTO approved and we have not paid tariff on it. So you will need a long glide path to an empty motorway as we haven't any international agreement on airport landing. But remember you are British like captain Scott dying in Antarctica , Mallory dying on Mount Everest and the valiant band of the Titanic all drowning in the Atlantic. We have lot to live up to. Now anyone for last drinks -"
"I'll have a Whisky and Dry"
Now that brings back memories on a stormy February Friday the 13th flight from Schiphol to Humberside it was so rough that there were only thirteen of us including the crew, on a Fokker Friendship, clustered behind the curtains of the cockpit , so that the stewardess could pass us drinks still in bottles as it was too rough to use a trolley.
The pilot part way across opened the curtain and heeled over the plane.
"If you look down to starboard you can see the Roll on Roll off Ferry."
The waves were so bad they seemed to be passing over the whole of the ship!
"Those poor devils" he paused as the plane was jinking badly then continued "Are out here all night, we are much better off, as we will only be up here for an hour or so."
We all had a few more drinks and as we approached the Humberside Airport the Pilot said (as hail lashed across the windscreen)
"The situation is this, there is the devil of a cross wind across the runway, visibility is awful.
What say we give it a go?"
By this time we were all a little shall we say merry and gave the thumbs up, We ordered various last drinks, already securely belted up as we had been all along
He brought us down sideways to the runway, and I remember wondering where airport was going, and he made an excellent landing.
We all cheered.
The only casualty came as we stepped out to walk across the runway and the poor Air hostess was blown off her feet into a puddle!
We linked arms and pressed on the the terminal through the Sleet and rain.
Brexit is beginning to look like that Friday the 13th Flight
"
James Curtis9 hours ago
Now as you all know we have been experiencing a lot of turbulence recently as the cabin staff have been having a little domestic and hurling a lot of stuff at each other. But dont worry please. Second we have had to dismiss both pilot and copilot since they are Polish and if you look out the window you can see both parachuting intothe Atlantic ocean. But please dont worry. If any of you have flown a Boeing 747 please come to the cockpit area where we will upgrade your seat allocation to pilot. If there are no pilots on board -perhaps you have had some time on smartphone flight apps. Just think how envious your friends will be when you tell them you flew a Boeing 747 loaded with 500 passengers. Sorry I need to correct that - when you tell them you glided a 747. We have had to ditch the fuel as it is not WTO approved and we have not paid tariff on it. So you will need a long glide path to an empty motorway as we haven't any international agreement on airport landing. But remember you are British like captain Scott dying in Antarctica , Mallory dying on Mount Everest and the valiant band of the Titanic all drowning in the Atlantic. We have lot to live up to. Now anyone for last drinks -"
"I'll have a Whisky and Dry"
Now that brings back memories on a stormy February Friday the 13th flight from Schiphol to Humberside it was so rough that there were only thirteen of us including the crew, on a Fokker Friendship, clustered behind the curtains of the cockpit , so that the stewardess could pass us drinks still in bottles as it was too rough to use a trolley.
The pilot part way across opened the curtain and heeled over the plane.
"If you look down to starboard you can see the Roll on Roll off Ferry."
The waves were so bad they seemed to be passing over the whole of the ship!
"Those poor devils" he paused as the plane was jinking badly then continued "Are out here all night, we are much better off, as we will only be up here for an hour or so."
We all had a few more drinks and as we approached the Humberside Airport the Pilot said (as hail lashed across the windscreen)
"The situation is this, there is the devil of a cross wind across the runway, visibility is awful.
What say we give it a go?"
By this time we were all a little shall we say merry and gave the thumbs up, We ordered various last drinks, already securely belted up as we had been all along
He brought us down sideways to the runway, and I remember wondering where airport was going, and he made an excellent landing.
We all cheered.
The only casualty came as we stepped out to walk across the runway and the poor Air hostess was blown off her feet into a puddle!
We linked arms and pressed on the the terminal through the Sleet and rain.
Brexit is beginning to look like that Friday the 13th Flight
Another day, another poll:
There's more on that here:
https://www.mumsnet.com/politics/seven-out-of-ten-mumsnet-users-want-vote-on-brexit-deal
Tom
There's more on that here:
https://www.mumsnet.com/politics/seven-out-of-ten-mumsnet-users-want-vote-on-brexit-deal
Tom
Utter nonsense from start to finish I'm afraid groaner.
Again you are using this echo chamber to push through your thoughts as mine.
1. I'm not an EU lawyer but you said the EU doesn't get involved in sovereign nation tax matters. I proved it did....
2. 'British Management are the worst in the western world' You have proof of this? You sure this has not just osmosed into your mind? I can think of a few countries within the cosy marketplace of the EU that may disagree with that statement themselves....
3. 'Our investors put their money anywhere but here' Again, I'm sure you have privileged access to our insurance, sovereign, church and private hedge funds but can you show us just tiny glimpse into your insight of this?
4.'All the successful Companies here are Foreign owned depending on access to the EU.' Wow. Now we really are starting to see your hate/anger of this country clouding your judgement. Key word is 'All'
Companies will stay if it suits them. Same today as it was ten years ago as it will be ten years in the future.
One example of the project fear you guys peddle is Airbus. Believe it or not and I guess you won't but we are world renowned as the best wing makers for civilian aircraft in the world. Bar none. We make more wings for Boeing here than we do for Airbus. Not surprisingly Airbus being a mouthpiece for the EU (illegally I might add) says it will have to move if we leave. No one is stopping it of course but it won't happen for financial and quality reasons.
It's a shame you are so embarrassed about your country's achievements in the past and going forward. I'm not and that's why I believe we will be fine in the future. Nothing to do with fairy tales.
But strangely thay are not always Brexiters.
My brother hates today's world and would wish for a return to the world of the 1950s and before, but he has long been consistent in saying that leaving the EU is an impossibility and to attempt it foolish in the extreme.
.
You seem very reluctant to furnish readers here with a list or even one benefit we will receive by exiting the EU.
Perhaps you are just a troll; entering this thread simply to annoy and spout nonsense.
I'll ask again; how will 'Brexit' benefit me and how will it benefit the UK?
Tom