Who is the "we" of whom you speak and where are these wings being made for Boeing?
wheeler
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
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wheeler
that was 100 years ago when wings were made of wood.
Boeing are setting up a new factory in Sheffield and it's not producing wings yet.
I enjoyed your Post, lets look at it point by point, I have used italics for your points for clarity puposes
1. I'm not an EU lawyer but you said the EU doesn't get involved in sovereign nation tax matters. I proved it did....
First of all it was another Kiwi who made that comment, not me, and frankly you proved nothing of the sort did you?
All member states signed up to agreements that they would not unfairly subsidise companies by letting them get away with not paying the Tax that the Government of that Country had set.
This is to ensure that Taxation is not uses as a bribe for unfair competition between states and has nothing whatsoever to do with interfering in Sovereign affairs, and everything to do with that country honouring it's treaty obligations.
2. 'British Management are the worst in the western world' You have proof of this? You sure this has not just osmosed into your mind? I can think of a few countries within the cosy marketplace of the EU that may disagree with that statement themselves....
Then explain how they presided over the failure of our Motorcycle and Car industry, and our once enormously successful Aircraft industry is reduced to making wings for Boeing?
And how are we going to ship goods in the future?
British Management failed to keep the Shipyards busy too
The number of British-flagged ships plying the global sealanes has plunged by more than a third over the past five years, putting the UK’s place as a maritime authority at risk.
New data from the Department of Transport reveals that last year there were just 453 UK-registered trading vessels of 100 gross tons and over flying the Red Ensign, down from 712 in 2009.
The situation seen in the UK is the reverse of the global trend, with growing international trade meaning that the total number of ships in the world rose by 5pc to 56,759 over the same period.
Are you going to claim it was all the fault of the Unions?
How then do you explain that the Japanese and Germans can squeeze productivity from the same workers?
3. 'Our investors put their money anywhere but here' Again, I'm sure you have privileged access to our insurance, sovereign, church and private hedge funds but can you show us just tiny glimpse into your insight of this?
Oh yes I can, as the company i worked for opened a "Joint Venture" factory in China, closed the one I had worked for, and then tried to capitalise on it's reputation gained from the product we made, by selling cheap imitations for the same price.
It ruined the business quite quickly and they sold up
BP are doing the same thing with the Acetic Acid business, shutting down the local plant too.
Successful Companies here are Foreign owned depending on access to the EU.' Wow. Now we really are starting to see your hate/anger of this country clouding your judgement. Key word is 'All'
It would be a help if you could avoid falling into the standard and juvenile false Patriot language you used in that sentence, it merely makes you look a bigger fool than your lack of understanding of the topic under discussion does.
Brexit is not the measure of how "patriotic" or "Brave" a person is, it is more the mark of a cowardly retreat from an organisation the person involved felt inadequate to compete inside.
The truth is that the Companies big enough to impact on the economy are indeed Foreign controlled.
Companies will stay if it suits them. Same today as it was ten years ago as it will be ten years in the future.
And what suits them is unfettered access to the EU market, which along with Monetary Bribes from the Government brought them here in the first place
What you should be asking, since you are convinced of the capability of British Management and investors , why didn't our companies take on that role?
One example of the project fear you guys peddle is Airbus. Believe it or not and I guess you won't but we are world renowned as the best wing makers for civilian aircraft in the world. Bar none. We make more wings for Boeing here than we do for Airbus. Not surprisingly Airbus being a mouthpiece for the EU (illegally I might add) says it will have to move if we leave. No one is stopping it of course but it won't happen for financial and quality reasons.
Can you give a good reason why they should stay, or why perhaps you think Airbus are a mouthpiece for the EU?
Where did you get that nonsense propaganda from?
It's a shame you are so embarrassed about your country's achievements in the past and going forward. I'm not and that's why I believe we will be fine in the future. Nothing to do with fairy tales.
Embarassed about our country's achievements? not at all, I'm embarrassed about it's failures due to incompetence and the foolishness behind the Brexit decision.
And as always with Brexit voters, you have given a load of second hand bluster, false patriotism, wishful thinking and nothing whatsoever that is even remotely likely to indicate that Brexit is worth the risk for.
Your posting in fact says nothing of value, except that you fail to comprehend each point you made.
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It was a gross exaggeration. The parts Sheffield will make are very small ones for inclusion within wings made elsewhere, probably the USA:
“The parts we will make are very small and will be machined in under 30 minutes on approximately 20 machining centres"
Information link
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You seem hell bent on me trying to predict the future.
As I've said before. I cannot do that. I will repeat though. Nothing much will change in the short term. It's then up to us as a country to make things work.
You can use the 'troll' line all you want but just because someone has a different viewpoint to you doesn't make them a troll or..wait for it..wrong.
Store that for future reference and I'm sure we can have an engaging debate without resorting to name calling.
Troll and Brexidiots isn't the best way forward to get over your arguments imo.
I think an actual referendum would result in a far bigger margin for Remain. I'm convinced there is considerable disillusion among Brexiters as the problems and their intractable nature have increasingly become clear, the Irish border, jobs moving to the EU and losses like Galileo, nuclear and space co-operation for example.
It's one thing to stick to an opinion in answer to a pollster, quite another to get up from the armchair and go out to vote for something one is secretly beginning losing faith in. The poor UK performance in the negotiations and the concessions made already have many Brexiters admitting concern.
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I think your right, but for the wrong reasons.People who voted for Brexit
Would say "what's the point of voting"
If I'm being honest Groaner I'm more than a little disappointed in your reply.
You ramble on about ships and a company you worked for once but fail, either on purpose or by being ignorant to actually answer any of my questions/points. You even fail to accept that the EU is interfering in Irelands taxation system.
Look. I haven't come on here for a quarrel. I just read a few pages and decided to come into your echo chamber. You all seem very nice but you are all very pessimistic and brainwashed.
I'd love to have a reasoned debate but unless anyone can genuinely engage with an open mind its pointless n'est pas?
So why did you vote for 'Brexit', presuming you so did?
Moreover, why are you still/now of the opinion that 'Brexit' is a good thing? Surely there has to be a substantial benefit for the British people in leaving the EU or what would be the point? I can't believe that any intelligent person would bet the future generations' prospects in the way gamblers sometimes play a hand 'blind' with no idea what they are holding but that's what you are effectively doing by pursuing 'Brexit.
Tom
Because I believe that it was inevitable anyway so we may as well get on with it now.
We will never join the Euro, we are already left out of over 30% of meetings and decision making because of this so whats the point of keep paying into a club that wants different things to you?
There is one cast iron reason for you tom.
I had a couple of those landings:
- one into Wellington where people in the terminal asked if anyone was hurt when we got out of the plane...
- another into Christchurch which left me with a bruise on the inner thigh in the shape of the fingers of the rather attractive female passenger sitting next to me...
"Oh sorry, did I grab your leg? I was so scared"
Indeed, that as well Dave from a Brexit point of view, but I still believe my given reasons are also valid for many.
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I thought you said you can't see the future!
Neither can I, but I can envisage that we might well join the euro at a future date. If Brexit doesn't work out and we rejoin the EU it's a condition of joining.
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Could've been painful if she'd missed.- another into Christchurch which left me with a bruise on the inner thigh in the shape of the fingers of the rather attractive female passenger sitting next to me...
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Permit me responding to your reply to OG but you have certainly fooled me - I could have sworn your only intention in entering this 'Brexit' and associated political matters discussion is because you want a quarrel. You display all the characteristics of an internet troll, none more so than your repeated failure to provide any argument in support of 'Brexit'.
Like several others who are mostly ignorant of the aims and purpose of the EU, you like to throw in one or two specious soundbites and issue challenges to those who understand the idiocy in secession from the EU.
Every argument I have ever heard in support of 'Brexit' has been demonstrated to be nothing but sophistry yet somehow, you expect to be taken seriously by failing to illustrate the benefits you perceive we might all enjoy by secession.
I'm prepared to wait while you prepare an explanation as to why you think you are right in believing 'Brexit' is an opportunity but I have to say, I'm getting old and I don't know how long I've got.
Tom
Sorry I thought you wanted serious discussion, but your reply shows your intent was simply to fool around
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I was serious groaner.
I took my time and explained. You simply ignored everything, went on a rant and now I'm not being serious...
The idea that someone your age doesn't know that Thatcher ruined our manufacturing base and that ships are somehow a barometer of a successful trading nation in the 21st century is naïve at best...
I think there's an age discrepancy here, those of us much older remember only too well the loss of our manufacturing since we lived and worked through it. In the exactly thirty-four years from 1945 to the year Thatcher became prime minister, we lost most of our bicycle, motorcycle, car, truck, bus, aircraft and shipbuilding industries. Thatcher later administered the coup de grace.
Whilst agreeing that having a merchant navy isn't a prerequisite of a successful trading nation, it's strategically risky for an island depending on imports to be unable to service itself. I remember how close to the brink we were in World War 2 when we still did have a large merchant fleet but had to be supported by the US merchant fleet.
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