Sure you could do it OG...Even you would have difficulty hitting your feet with a gun that is aimed as high as that would be!
(Unless you were attempting once again to put them in your mouth)
It looks more like an explanatory schematic of what your Brexit Vote will get you.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
That's assuming there is an EU27 a few years post Brexit. Sure isn't guaranteed. One of EU's big worries is others following suit. No matter what happens post Brexit... There will always be an England... and Italy... etc etc. EU is another matter.
UK is fighting to leave EU, E U is fighting for its existence. A powerful motivator. Especially when it's leaders would be redundant if EU did disintegrate.
You have this back to front, without our inhibiting presence the EU will morph into the inevitable United States of Europe.
You should be proud that your Vote for Brexit has accelerated that process.
England will go the way of the Saxon Kingdoms that preceded it, too small and with too few resources to remain independent.
We have already proved that once but were too foolish to learn the lesson
I wasn't referring to a few years down the line. Rather to the transition period which will end by December 2020. Won't it?
it's possible but I think it's more likely that the EU will slow down if not stop the move to a federated state. The EU needs time for smaller, weaker economies to grow, Italy and Spain to solve their national debts etc, these things will in turn reduce labour and benefit migrations. When these issues are solved, the EU will then be on a much firmer footing to evolve into a real US of E and maybe, it'll be time for us to rejoin.
If they can solve Italy's and Greece's financial woes.
There is a massive hurdle for Italy/EU to solve somewhere down the line. Over past decade or so EU has bailed out Italian economy to a massive degree under conditions austerity measures are introduced/maintained. The current coalition in Italy got into power by representing/attracting votes from poor South on promise of lifting austerity. (and reducing immigration) The other half of coalition represents richer North and got power on policy of reducing tax. At the moment Italy is struggling along just paying its way.. Just, but the planned measures to lift austerity are estimated at between 50 and 100 billion euro per year. Its inevitable at some point they will turn to EU as in past... Then the problem arises. Under current policy EU can only help if Italy go back to Austerity measures .. They can't... Will EU change policy? If they do Greece will be in revolt. If they don't, Italy will be bankrupt and might choose to leave Euro so they can devalue currency, in bargain renaging on debt to EU.
EU will be in a dilemma. Damned if they do. Damned if they don't.
Yes, none of this is guaranteed but it's all very possible.
And all this is before the problem 5 Star (part of coalition) are anti EU anti immigration .. ??
Brexit has actually been good timing for Italy. EU will go to absolute limit to keep Italy on board but at what cost???
OG
I haven't got it wrong way around at all. You have. The EU is an idea, an experiment, a set of agreements between its member states. It does not actually exist. The UK has geographical borders and existence. The EU has neither. If EU disintegrates MEP's will be redundant. All the lot of them.
As yet it is nothing like USA, its attempts to be so is probably why many voted to leave and rightly so.
Last edited:
The alternative is the other option of a two speed EU, grouping the weaker nations separately with the richer majority helping them to gradually come up to speed. That will be easier with the two economic levels apart and the poorer nations not having to struggle stay afloat.
.
Is that how you see the future of the nation? It's the world of Arthur Daley and Del Boy, a world of fly-by-night traders, operating in a cash-only environment with just the mugs on PAYE actually contributing anything to the exchequer.
Tom
It would certainly help if the financially weaker could devalue their own currency but unfortunately that would necisatate two distinct currencies. Imagine if you introduced a 2 tier system, after a few years the weaker group would devalue producing an exchange rate within the single currency. Imagine the problems that would create. Go on holiday to Greece, spend a couple of weeks there and bring back more than you, d taken. For a two tier system to work,countries would have to revert to their own old currency.
Besides a 2 tier system shows up the stupidity in the initial reasoning behind the Euro. Its a fatally flawed currency for exactly the reasons you justify a two tier system.
How on earth could it ever work with a Euro in Greece being of equal value to one in Germany with their vastly different wealth, living standards, growth and GDP. It can't work,as has been shown in Greece, Spain, Italy and Portugal. Can EU continue essentially what is quantitive easing indefinitely for these nations? I don't think it can, for reasons as I explained in the post about Italy.
I know someone will come back and quote USA as a recommendation for single currency. Its taken USA 150 plus years to get it working, article below is old but explains differences between Euro and dollar..
https://www.thenational.ae/business/one-currency-works-in-us-but-not-in-europe-for-some-good-reasons-1.372370
The Euro is only working because powers that be in Brussels are pumping billions into keeping poorer states viable. That can not and will not last. Either EU must adopt policies as explained in link or simply go back to individual currencies. Problem being the 27 (28?) would never agree to hand over complete fiscal control to Germany (, as quoted in example) or perhaps Brussels. It just won't happen. America has gone through Wars of Independence, Civil War in developing their unified currency and policies making it viable. EU merely thought it a good idea, against opinion of many economists.
Last edited:
Italy and Spain need to solve their issues with corruption. There is no problem of available cash in either country it is just that the dark economy is too powerful. Italy and Spain have strong industrial bases but one has the Mafia and the other hasn't gotten rid of the Franco fans...
Before I feck off...
You need to change your reading habits. https://www.scmp.com/business/banking-finance/article/2125637/why-2018-could-be-year-euro
Better than Novichoc to divert attention!
in the Express
"
CORBYN'S CURTAIN CALL: Furious MPs vow to 'COLLAPSE’ leadership at SECRET MEETINGS
SENIOR Labour MPs have been holding secret away days at a luxury 12-acre holiday estate in Sussex to make plans to oust Jeremy Corbyn.
All because of the Campaign to pin Anti Semitism on him, by a party that somehow manages to get to get the Press to forget they are worse!
in the Express
"
CORBYN'S CURTAIN CALL: Furious MPs vow to 'COLLAPSE’ leadership at SECRET MEETINGS
SENIOR Labour MPs have been holding secret away days at a luxury 12-acre holiday estate in Sussex to make plans to oust Jeremy Corbyn.
All because of the Campaign to pin Anti Semitism on him, by a party that somehow manages to get to get the Press to forget they are worse!
Also in the Express
"
What on EARTH? Michael Gove in shock talks to keep UK IN EU single market to AVOID no deal
MICHAEL Gove has reportedly been discussing a backstop plan with moderates to keep the UK in the EU single market if Brexit negotiations collapse.
"
What on EARTH? Michael Gove in shock talks to keep UK IN EU single market to AVOID no deal
MICHAEL Gove has reportedly been discussing a backstop plan with moderates to keep the UK in the EU single market if Brexit negotiations collapse.
They really are trying in the Express
"
BREXIT WARNING: UK gets TOUGH on Brussels as EU warned to prepare for RIOTS
EUROPEAN farmers would "riot on the streets" if Brussels imposes trade barriers with Britain in a "no deal" Brexit, a senior Brexiteer said yesterday MONDAY as he insisted the EU would in the end act in its own producers' interests.
EU warned to prepare for riots? doesn't he mean prepare to watch them?
"
BREXIT WARNING: UK gets TOUGH on Brussels as EU warned to prepare for RIOTS
EUROPEAN farmers would "riot on the streets" if Brussels imposes trade barriers with Britain in a "no deal" Brexit, a senior Brexiteer said yesterday MONDAY as he insisted the EU would in the end act in its own producers' interests.
EU warned to prepare for riots? doesn't he mean prepare to watch them?
that's an understatement.
It wouldn't, of course, be a story if they went to a non-luxury, less-than-12-acre, non-holiday estate. For example, a university hall of residence or a youth hostel.
Last edited:
I'd go further and say that the UK, Italy and Spain all need to solve their corruption problems!
Tom
The government is doing its best to lower expectations.
The bar is now so low that if there is no queue at Dover on March 29, it's a win for TM and her team.