Brexit, for once some facts.

[Wicky]

The bloke plainly is neither a racist or anti semitic in its accepted meaning.

He wobbles on the political tightrope with his prior support for Hamas & Hezbollah and perceived greater sympathy for Palestinians which won't win him many friends in Jewish quarters - overall I agree he's not a racist per se but he'd better try to simply condemn needless waste of lives on both sides, but difficult for him as he's developed over a long time his anti-establishment / protest attitudes and style over any finesse in his leadership skills.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Jeremy_Corbyn#Hamas_and_Hezbollah

 

[Kudoscycles]

Fox wants no deal,for at that point he will be all powerful,the government and the country will turn to him for 'all the opportunities that are now open to us'....frightening thought!!!
If we get a soft brexit deal with the EU,call it Brino,he hasnt got a job,for we might be able to continue with the 65 trade deals that the EU has already negotiated on our behalf.
KudosDave

 

[oldgroaner]

not all the news:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/999337/Brexit-news-Project-Fear-UK

Didn't the Japanese and other Foreign manufacturers do well because we are still in the EU?
What percentage of these goods were made by actually British owned companies?

"The US, Germany and the Netherlands were the three countries with the most UK businesses in 2012. But in terms of continents, the majority (54%) of foreign-owned businesses were owned from within Europe, with around a third (33%) owned from within North and South America."

Imagine how disastrous it is going to be when both of them are gone!

 

[Woosh]

Most of us are perfectly aware of the order of events but you seem to imagine that, once out of the EU, the 27 are going to agree to give the UK everything we have now for free.

I do expect we will contribute toward the running cost of EU programs that we agree to participate.
You seem to think that the EU has all the cards.
That's true only as far as the A50 process is concerned, because we are still member of the club, club rules apply and the EU shall determine how.
After brexit day, we should be in agreed transition, again, the EU holds all the cards but only to the EU/UK relationship, but unlike now, we can start looking elsewhere. The balance is moving toward between equals.

 

[shemozzle999]

If that is such wonderful news, how come the slide in the pound? How come Fox is saying no-deal likely? If those export figures are that wonderful, bear in mind, they have been achieved whilst inside the EU. So why leave?

Hard facts can't be manipulated, unlike the value of the pound.

No deal likely due to immovable stances on both sides - the PM has just endorsed his point.

 

[oldgroaner]

I do expect we will contribute toward the running cost of EU programs that we agree to participate.
You seem to think that the EU has all the cards.
That's true only as far as the A50 process is concerned, because we are still member of the club, club rules apply and the EU shall determine how.
After brexit day, we should be in agreed transition, again, the EU holds all the cards but only to the EU/UK relationship, but unlike now, we can start looking elsewhere. The balance is moving toward between equals.

As in a Mouse and an Owl?

 

[oldgroaner]

Hard facts can't be manipulated, unlike the value of the pound.

No deal likely due to immovable stances on both sides - the PM has just endorsed his point.

You are correct ,this improvement came during EU membership using EU trade agreements, didn't it?
Aided by the fact that the Pound had bombed in Value, a one time fluke hopefully.

The rules that we agreed to, say a deal is only possible after we leave, what the EU is after is for us to stop effing about and come forward with something sensible as a request they can chew over.
So far we have made a lash up of that, and no doubt that situation will last till we get kicked out, and they dictate what they are prepared to offer out of pity.

By that time we will be employing the famous
Old Navajo Indian trick of Screaming and Begging

 

[Kudoscycles]

Hard facts can't be manipulated, unlike the value of the pound.

No deal likely due to immovable stances on both sides - the PM has just endorsed his point.

No she hasn't, TM has distanced herself from Fox's comments and repeated that she expects to get a good deal,Fox wont resign because unlike Davis and Boris he doesnt have expectations of her job.
KudosDave

copy and paste.....

Downing Street has insisted that Theresa May is confident of securing a Brexit deal with Brussels despite Liam Fox’s assertion that the UK appears set to crash out of the EU without reaching an agreement.

Whitehall sources said they believed there was only a very small chance of the government failing to secure a deal, but that preparations were being stepped up in what they described as the unlikely event of that taking place.

 

[oldgroaner]

No she hasn't, TM has distanced herself from Fox's comments and repeated that she expects to get a good deal,Fox wont resign because unlike Davis and Boris he doesnt have expectations of her job.
KudosDave

copy and paste.....

Downing Street has insisted that Theresa May is confident of securing a Brexit deal with Brussels despite Liam Fox’s assertion that the UK appears set to crash out of the EU without reaching an agreement.

Whitehall sources said they believed there was only a very small chance of the government failing to secure a deal, but that preparations were being stepped up in what they described as the unlikely event of that taking place.

The preparations in question being selling up and shifting the proceeds offshore perchance?

 

[Woosh]

The preparations in question being selling up and shifting the proceeds offshore perchance?

she only wants the transition and some outline of a deal.
As long as the EU say they'll look at her proposal with interest, she'll be home and dry for two more years.
The real substance can begin much later.
If during the 2 year transition, jobs are lost, wages falling, house prices crashing then Brexit may be reversed before the transition is over.

 

[oldtom]

After brexit day, we should be in agreed transition, again, the EU holds all the cards but only to the EU/UK relationship, but unlike now, we can start looking elsewhere. The balance is moving toward between equals.

but unlike now, we can start looking elsewhere.

We can trade with whomsoever we wish right now and that has always been the case so your assertion is wrong. There is no compulsion to trade purely with any EU 'white-listed' group of countries.

I really think you actually believe all the distortions purveyed by the tory 'Brexit' wing in order to try and regain the previously perceived public desire to leave the EU. Move on 'Woosh'!

Tom

 

[oldtom]

If during the 2 year transition, jobs are lost, wages falling, house prices crashing then Brexit may be reversed before the transition is over.

I don't remember reading that anywhere and I'll take a wild guess and say that no such mechanism exists as no country has ever ventured into this divorce situation before.

If I understand correctly, the EU representatives have expressed that it isn't too late for the UK to withdraw from the process now or before March 2019. After that, if we decide we don't like the brave new post-'Brexit' world, we would need to make formal application to join again and it would require all 27 states to agree for that to be an easy process.

By all means correct me if I have misunderstood the position on such matters.

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

This is what we are threatening the EU with

 

[Woosh]

We can trade with whomsoever we wish right now and that has always been the case so your assertion is wrong.

Did you see Simlim Square in Singapore? Sham Shui Po in Hongkong?

WTO brexit is importers' paradise!

No pesky EU regulations!

 

[Woosh]

By all means correct me if I have misunderstood the position on such matters.

No you haven't! but have you sampled the delights of a regulation free (flea) market economy?

No income tax, no VAT,
No money back, no guarantee,
Black or white, rich or broke,
We'll cut prices at a stroke!

 

[oldgroaner]

For anyone interested in What the EU have offered
Here's the slides Barnier showed to the Heads of State and Government at the European Council (Article 50) on 15 December 2017

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/slide_presented_by_barnier_at_euco_15-12-2017.pdf

 

[Zlatan]

This is what we are threatening the EU with

That's OG's, he has holes in his feet to prove it

 

[oldgroaner]

That's OG's, he has holes in his feet to prove it

Even you would have difficulty hitting your feet with a gun that is aimed as high as that would be!
(Unless you were attempting once again to put them in your mouth)
It looks more like an explanatory schematic of what your Brexit Vote will get you.

 

[oyster]

If during the 2 year transition, jobs are lost, wages falling, house prices crashing then Brexit may be reversed before the transition is over.

If the brexit process has been difficult, re-joining during transition will be next to impossible, in my opinion. The ONLY reason I can think of that could soften it at all is if the impact all round, but mainly the EU27, is far worse than even the worst current predictions.

 

[Woosh]

If the brexit process has been difficult, re-joining during transition will be next to impossible, in my opinion. The ONLY reason I can think of that could soften it at all is if the impact all round, but mainly the EU27, is far worse than even the worst current predictions.

I think Parliament knows that EFTA is a possible solution, TM and her team just try to get a better deal.
Personally, I don't like DT's way of negotiating, I prefer the French (OK, EU's) way of sorting out differences.

*French way: c'est logique!