Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

From the Express
"
At Prime Minister's Questions in the Commons shortly before beginning her round of meetings with ministers, she said: "The Brexit that this Government will be delivering and is working to deliver is a Brexit that ensures that we are out of the customs union, we are out of the single market, we are out of the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice, we are out of the Common Agricultural Policy, we are out of the Common Fisheries Policy, we bring an end to free movement, we take control of our borders, we have an independent trade policy and that we are also able to have a good trade arrangement with the European Union, protecting jobs and prosperity of the future."

Speaking in response to questions from Eurosceptic Tory backbenchers, she added: "After we leave the European Union we will be operating our own independent trade policy, Parliament will be determining our laws and we will bring an end to free movement."

Mrs May's new proposal, which combines elements of her previous plan for a "New Customs Partnership" with the high-tech border system wanted by Eurosceptic ministers, will mean no tariffs on imports from outside the EU as long as business can specify the retail destination of the products.

Downing Street aides estimate that 96 percent of imports from outside the EU will not need tariffs.

And she expects the EU to agree?
And in other news from Narnia.....

Incidentally the reader's comments are all very much against this idea, it does actually make you wonder if they understand any of it!

 

[Woosh]

And she expects the EU to agree?
And in other news from Narnia.....

Good luck, TM!

Jaguar Land Rover boss, Ralf Speth:

"A bad Brexit deal would cost Jaguar Land Rover more than £1.2bn profit each year.
As a result, we would have to drastically adjust our spending profile – we have spent around £50bn in the UK in the past five years, with plans for a further £80bn more in the next five. This would be in jeopardy should we be faced with the wrong outcome.”
Contrast that level of investments against a few EU companies moving into the UK in the last year illustrates the credibility gap of hard brexit, and yet, nearly as many voters want us to exit the SM as those wanting us to stay in.
I have the impression that the former buy into the nationalistic propaganda of hard brexiters.

 

[oldgroaner]

And from the Daily Mail
"
How will Theresa May hit back at Putin over latest Novichok outrage? Home Secretary to chair Cobra meeting today amid fallout from Amesbury poisoning"

Well if she reads the reader's comments under the article she will play it very softly indeed, as they are very much against blaming Russia!

 

[oyster]

And from the Daily Mail
"
How will Theresa May hit back at Putin over latest Novichok outrage? Home Secretary to chair Cobra meeting today amid fallout from Amesbury poisoning"

Well if she reads the reader's comments under the article she will play it very softly indeed, as they are very much against blaming Russia!

Perhaps she'll have a word in his ear when she goes to watch England in some final or other coming up... ???

Perhaps no-one will even mention the R-country in relation to novichok until that event is all finished?

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

One to think about with all the football going on. Many of the most anti immigrant people seem to also be very patriotic when it comes to football.

Not of course seeming to appreciate the contradictions of their beliefs.

The positive impact migration has had on football, is mirrored in lots of other industries.

 

[Woosh]

One to think about with all the football going on. Many of the most anti immigrant people seem to also be very patriotic when it comes to football.

George Orwell:

“Every nationalist is capable of the most flagrant dishonesty, but he is also — since he is conscious of serving something bigger than himself — unshakably certain of being in the right.”


https://lithub.com/what-george-orwell-wrote-about-the-dangers-of-nationalism/

 

[Zlatan]

The Reggie Yates programme last night was actually quite frightening.
(If you missed it he was visiting nationalist groups in Russia)
The fact that even with (or perhaps because of) the Internet many people are so lacking in basic knowledge of human history. The problem we have is the term"racist" and "xenophobe" are so watered down by calling so many by the term the real racists can hide. Saying immigration needs to be controlled is not racist. The views last night were.
It really was disturbing, in the level of racism demonstrated, the numbers exhibiting the views and the openness to express them.
Worrying times? Or are we simply more informed ?

 

[Zlatan]

One to think about with all the football going on. Many of the most anti immigrant people seem to also be very patriotic when it comes to football.

Not of course seeming to appreciate the contradictions of their beliefs.

The positive impact migration has had on football, is mirrored in lots of other industries.

I do agree with your premise but shouldnt we be looking at this rather differently. At the moment we pick a period in history and say folk arriving after that date are migrants but before are not. In reality everyone of us is a migrant.
Human life did not burst on the scene spread around as we now are.
I don't think it's fair to single out football either. Yes, it's had its fair share of problems with racism but on the whole it's truly a meritocracy. If you can play, whatever your background, you can be successful. That's not case in a great many other institutions.
And neither do I think football fans are more likely to be nationalistic in their politics. Supporting your own team does not make you a nationalist by any means.
I think you are making assumptions again but the overall point, ie background of players is valid.
We did same with Murray. When he was winning he was British, when not he was Scottish.

 

[oldgroaner]

The Reggie Yates programme last night was actually quite frightening.
(If you missed it he was visiting nationalist groups in Russia)
The fact that even with (or perhaps because of) the Internet many people are so lacking in basic knowledge of human history. The problem we have is the term"racist" and "xenophobe" are so watered down by calling so many by the term the real racists can hide. Saying immigration needs to be controlled is not racist. The views last night were.
It really was disturbing, in the level of racism demonstrated, the numbers exhibiting the views and the openness to express them.
Worrying times? Or are we simply more informed ?

Being increasingly exposed to "News" (often distorted ) means collectively more subject to manipulation perhaps

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

And neither do I think football fans are more likely to be nationalistic in their politics. Supporting your own team does not make you a nationalist by any means.

Sorry, you've got my point the wrong way round. I was saying most nationalists are proud Engerland fans... I'm not saying most England fans are nationalists.

 

[Zlatan]

Sorry, you've got my point the wrong way round. I was saying most nationalists are proud Engerland fans... I'm not saying most England fans are nationalists.

I see that now. My apologies too. Perhaps so. The St George Cross is misused sometimes.
Completely OT, but in his interview yesterday the friend of the couple poisoned said they had been buying red, white and blue paint to make a flag to support England?

 

[oldgroaner]

This latest "Novichok" incident is even stranger than the first,
"
A former resident of the accommodation claimed Ms Sturgess may have been exposed to nerve agent by collecting cigarette ends, adding: “Lots of people collect half smoked cigarettes - if that's what got the spy and he's chucked it down somewhere, Dawn could have picked it up.”

Do people really pick up and smoke tab ends?
That surprises me
Then this

Public health officials initially said there was no risk to the public in March, but later told diners to wash their clothing and jewellery as military personnel moved in wearing protective suits to cordon off potentially contaminated sites.

What is the use of washing clothing and jewellery if two months of weather don't remove Novichok?
And of course what sort of state would a cigarette butt be in after being exposed to the elements for two months?

Frankly this looks more like a new contamination than an old one.

 

[oldgroaner]

From the independent
"
Owen Paterson, a former Conservative minister, told the Today programme: "What is really vital is they will be better off if the government delivers on what the prime minister promised me in the Commons yesterday.


“If we do leave the customs union, JLR will have access to cheaper parts and components all around the world and European suppliers will be forced to compete or they will lose JLR’s business.

The utter lack of situational awareness of this man is breathtaking
Wishful thinking seems to have reached Pandemic proportions with Brexiteer Mp's

These reader's comments sum the situation up nicely
"
tpjm 4 hours ago
The Brexit camp still haven't presented anything even vaguely resembling a plan for Brexit, yet Brexiter Patterson knows more about the car industry than the car industry itself. Who needs Jaguar Land Rover, BMW, Nissan or others? Owen knows what's best for them. What a deluded country the UK has become, with people like Patterson and JRM in the driving seat."

And

"blackfirscharlie 4 hours ago
What he means to say is if we are out of the EU, then the money-grabbing vermin he represents would be unfettered."

 

[Woosh]

The utter lack of situational awareness of this man is breathtaking
Wishful thinking seems to have reached Pandemic proportions with Brexiteer Mp's

he's an ignoramus. Without joining the SM, we can't sell car parts made in the UK to the EU and cars made in the UK cannot be sold to the USA with the lower 2.5% import duty. Our car business is going to be disintegrated within a couple of years.
The problem is there are a lot of voters who are too lazy to get themselves informed and prefer simplistic arguments from ignoramuses like Owen Paterson.

 

[oldgroaner]

he's an ignoramus. Without joining the SM, we can't sell car parts made in the UK to the EU and cars made in the UK cannot be sold to the USA with the lower 2.5% import duty. Our car business is going to be disintegrated within a couple of years.

Would you mind me offering a correction?

The FOREIGN car businesses that pass as ours rather than "ours"

I suspect that our biggest manufacturers will do alright...lets hear it for them
"
The Morgan Motor Company is a family-owned British motor car manufacturer that was founded in 1910 by Henry Frederick Stanley Morgan. Morgan is based in Malvern Link, an area of Malvern, Worcestershire, and employs 177 people. Wikipedia

I have actually driven one of these in 1960 that belonged to a pal

As I recall it was best described as a large motor with an unbraked tin can in hot pursuit, damn near lethal, when attempting to reach top speed I recall him shouting above the din and vibration "What's the speed?" and me shouting back "Cant read the Speedo it's all over the place with vibration!"
We then discovered how badly the brakes tended to fade as we ran out of road, luckily an open gate into a ploughed field brough is to a stop, and a kind Farmer towed us back to the road, laughing his head off! (he was working in the field and enjoyed the show)
Ah the joys of a mis spent youth , they don't make cars like that .....oh! apparently Morgan still do!

Tongue in cheek by the way there are actually the Four
"Bristol, Morgan, Caterham and McLaren"

With any luck at all they won't open a mega factory in the EU

 

[Zlatan]

Would you mind me offering a correction?

The FOREIGN car businesses that pass as ours rather than "ours"

I suspect that our biggest manufacturers will do alright...lets hear it for them
"
The Morgan Motor Company is a family-owned British motor car manufacturer that was founded in 1910 by Henry Frederick Stanley Morgan. Morgan is based in Malvern Link, an area of Malvern, Worcestershire, and employs 177 people. Wikipedia

Tongue in cheek by the way there are actually the Four
"Bristol, Morgan, Caterham and McLaren"

With any luck at all they won't open a mega factory in the EU

That could be problematic. Morgan buy major parts from USA.. Don't think they build any in house running gear. The back axles for plus 4 are from American horseless carriages.. Still use live axles and cart springs...
The three wheeler joins up American V twins (derived from Harley but actually SS) and Mazda MX5 gearbox..then a belt drive from Dyson (joking) to back wheel. (Obviously doesn't need a diff)
Since Mazda a part owned by Ford I suppose they could get bits via USA?? Who knows.

 

[oldgroaner]

That could be problematic. Morgan buy major parts from USA.. Don't think they build any in house running gear. The back axles for plus are from American horseless carriages.. Still use live axles and cart springs...
The three wheeler joins up American V twins (derived from Harley but actually SS) and Mazda MX5 gearbox..then a belt drive from Dyson (joking) to back wheel. (Obviously doesn't need a diff)
Since Mazda a part owned by Ford I suppose they could get bits via USA?? Who knows.

They used to have J.A.P. vee twin, and a chain drive to a same width back wheel as the front ones.
Thanks for the update, sad that they are now really no longer "Home Brewed"

 

[oldgroaner]

In the Daily Mirror
The Salisbury poisoning gets even stranger
"
Amesbury couple poisoned by deadly Novichok 'found syringe stashed in bag during trip to park'
Police are investigating if the couple found the killer substance hidden in a bag but had no idea what it was before taking it away"

1. How do we have a headline like that if the Police are investigating "if" that happened?
2. Why would they open a bag, touch the contents and take it away?
3. What became of the bag?
4. Why would the assasins leave the bag in a park?
   
5. More important the syringe would have to be loaded from a sealed container, why wasn't it in the bag too,and where is it?
6. How could a bag remain in a park without being found earlier than two months after the incident?

All very peculiar.
Thought for the day from one reader
"
Max Difusion, Durham, United Kingdom, 3 hours ago

War is when your leaders tell you who the enemy is. Revolution is when you figure it out for yourself...."

Oh Yes!!

 

[Kudoscycles]

But what has really riled ministers is the section on what this deal with the EU would mean for future trade deals. The paper is explicit that this deal ‘would not allow the UK to accommodate a likely ask from the US in a future trade deal’ as the UK would be unable to recognise the US’s ‘array of standards’.

Brexiteers are taking this as Theresa May effectively ruling out a post-Brexit trade deal with the US just days before the US President arrives in this country

Unbelievable....why are we doing this brexit nonsense....we will be tied to the EU without a veto vote but we will also be prevented from doing rest of world trade deals.....would we be allowed access to the 60 odd trade deals that the EU have already negotiated with the rest of the world?
Seems we could end up the worst of all scenarios.
KudosDave

 

[anotherkiwi]

One to think about with all the football going on. Many of the most anti immigrant people seem to also be very patriotic when it comes to football.

Not of course seeming to appreciate the contradictions of their beliefs.

The positive impact migration has had on football, is mirrored in lots of other industries.

I am a migrant, my three sons are French. My eldest just obtained a NZ passport because he intends going there for a year.

When do you stop being a migrant? 3 French players were born outside France (rough count on wikipedia) and are naturalised - that would be just over 7% of the squad are migrants or very close to the national average.