Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

They are not one offs at all. There is always another village. It's a disgrace.

Yes they are one-off expenditures, since in each location the environmental results last for years, even centuries.

Give the money to hospitals or schools and next week or month they'll need more. Institutions like that have to have restraints, sometimes even at the cost of lives however shocking that might sound, since unrestrained their expenditure runs out of control and knows no ultimate limit.

Their funding has to be locally controlled to hold them to account at all times.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

Well it probably won’t be that much of a problem for me either,but I have children and grand children and my fellow man or woman for that matter

And before long the state of this country will mean we have rejoined the EU so they should be alright.

 

[Woosh]

Their funding has to be locally controlled to hold them to account at all times.

have you got a solution to control illnesses due to lifestyle choices?
would you condone euthanasia?

 

[oldgroaner]

Meanwhile, distracted as we have been from what this corrupt government is doing while their propaganda agents ram royal this and royal that down our throats, this is happening:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1921811917870955

Tom

Tom, you've done it again I'm having to use the phone to post, the page is jumping like mad otn Windows 10

Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

 

[flecc]

have you got a solution to control illnesses due to lifestyle choices?
would you condone euthanasia?

Nobody has answers that are universally acceptable, certainly not me. We stumble along with such as NICE who decide what drugs we can afford while Health Trusts decide what they can spend on capital equipment and buildings.

The one thing we do know is that we can't afford everything and never will be able to, so some will suffer and some will lose lives that could have been saved if that were not true.

It was so easy when I was admitted to hospital long, long ago as a six year old with a hugely swollen left arm from septicaemia. There were no antibiotics then, no sophisticated adjustment of blood chemistry. All they could do was strap my arm vertically up to a frame over a bed for two weeks and leave me for one of two things to happen. Either the toxin to be beaten by my immune system or it kill me.

A health service like that was dirt cheap to build and run. The wards were long huts each with some 40 beds, no special wards, everyone else in my ward adult men. Treatment consisted largely of hot poultices for open wounds or rest and nursing for many internal conditions. Operations were relatively simple then, very unlike the highly technical sophisticated procedures now increasingly common and costing tens of thousands of pounds apiece using equipment that costs millions.
.

 

[Woosh]

A health service like that was dirt cheap to build and run.

I was in Mauritius last year. The system over there is a bit like that and there was no queue at the public clinics.
I also like the French system, patients pay typically 20%, except when they and their family can't pay then the state will pick up the tab.

 

[flecc]

I also like the French system, patients pay typically 20%, except when they and their family can't pay then the state will pick up the tab.

I'm also in favour of a part paying system to help overcome the problems. That would also help control the gross abuse of A & E that's overloading units with minor ailments we always used to deal with ourselves.
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[ianboydsnr]

And before long the state of this country will mean we have rejoined the EU so they should be alright.

I suspect not,

If we slipped out of the EU like the leavers claimed how easy it would be, then that would be a possibility.

 

[ianboydsnr]

I'm also in favour of a part paying system to help overcome the problems. That would also help control the gross abuse of A & E that's overloading units with minor ailments we always used to deal with ourselves.
.

I don’t believe we should part pay for hospital treatment,

 

[flecc]

I don’t believe we should part pay for hospital treatment,

Fine, but do you have a solution for the escalating costs of a "free" system that have no upper limit?

Part payments introduce a control to help establish limits that a country can afford. They also greatly improve service speed.
.

 

[Zlatan]

Fine, but do you have a solution for the escalating costs of a "free" system that have no upper limit?

Part payments introduce a control to help establish limits that a country can afford. They also greatly improve service speed.
.

Just get Mayor from Bezier to claim it off EU...

 

[Woosh]

Just get Mayor from Bezier to claim it off EU...

Beziers is much ado about nothing compared to Nice and Toulon on the collusion of money and politics.
The problem has also a cultural angle. It is customary that before you can talk business, you have to entertain potential customers with drinks and meal out just so that they can see if you are suitable to do business with. Only after they think they know you enough, then you can start talking business. But before you can take your clients out for a drink, you need to be introduced by a go-between, hence it's advantageous to be member of the local lodge or golf course.

 

[ianboydsnr]

Fine, but do you have a solution for the escalating costs of a "free" system that have no upper limit?

Part payment introduces a control to help establish limits that a country can afford. They also greatly improve service speed.
.

Yes, I would limit the scope of what the NHS does,




spend more on prevention, combine social care with the NHS, remove parking charges for patients at hospitals,
Scrapping the trident replacement should provide some spare cash for that,

Oh and fine those who need treatment for drinking alcohol and needing treatment,

Oh and the NHS has never been a free system, but I feel that as soon as you start charging then the most vulnerable suffer.

 

[anotherkiwi]

It would be nice if some people read up on what the EU actually does:

https://ec.europa.eu/info/eu-regional-and-urban-development/topics/cities-and-urban-development/funding-cities_en

 

[Danidl]

Justified by whose business model? Would you pay 3000 Euro to have a tree removed? The founding principle of EU is free enterprise. Is that solving g poverty? Explain who it helps. It's happening because the place is now World Heritage Site. Yes, it's beautiful... so is Monaco but at least that is private investment. How can EU justify that when 24% of its citizens can't afford to eat properly let alone visit Canal Du Midi.

View attachment 25068 View attachment 25068

Put it on twice for both Tom's faces.

Where have you read that the founding principle of the EU is free enterprise?. Not in my experience.
The notions of corruption to which you refer are very much culture dependent. One size does not fit all. practices . is viewed as totally unacceptable in a group of states is accepted practice in others... Western banking concepts for instance are a crime in Muslim tradition.
A constant meme of yours is about corruption in the EU, and frankly it is tiresome. We have ploughed this ground often enough.....
The EU has had a social cohesion fund and mandate for decades, if individuals abuse it , it is of course wrong, and human nature being what it is people will seek to maximise their local benefit. The EU employs a court of auditors and they do examine cases of malfiesance.

 

[flecc]

Yes, I would limit the scope of what the NHS does,

spend more on prevention, combine social care with the NHS, remove parking charges for patients at hospitals,
Scrapping the trident replacement should provide some spare cash for that,

Oh and fine those who need treatment for drinking alcohol and needing treatment,

All those agreed.

Oh and the NHS has never been a free system, but I feel that as soon as you start charging then the most vulnerable suffer.

Not necessarily, the French system for example only charges those who can afford a charge, and then only 20% of the cost. So it doesn't cause any distress but does deter unnecessary or avoidable demand.
.

 

[Zlatan]

https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/organized-crime-and-human-trafficking/corruption_en

Just to summarise. 37% of businesses find dealing with corruption a problem in EU.

 

[anotherkiwi]

So you see they are doing something about it!
"Technical assistance
Structural Reform Support Service (SRSS) of the Commission provides assistance to Member State authorities in order to improve prevention and the fight against corruption. The work includes helping EU countries to design and effectively implement structural reforms, apply EU law (otherwise known as the Community acquis) in a timely manner, use EU funds efficiently and effectively. Support is available to all EU countries, upon request"

Grab a map and draw a line from Bordeaux to Chisinau. Below that line corruption is institutionalised and out in the open. Above that line it is more cleverly disguised.

 

[Zlatan]

So you see they are doing something about it!

Trying and not ignoring it like so many on here.
And according to recent survey problem is getting worse. Read links within last post.(Just one example from survey results 2017)

 

[ianboydsnr]

All those agreed.



Not necessarily, the French system for example only charges those who can afford a charge, and then only 20% of the cost. So it doesn't cause any distress but does deter unnecessary or avoidable demand.
.

Ah but then you need a whole new level of paper pushers to distinguish who does or doesn’t qualify,

Is the French system really what we aspire the nhs to become?