Really? and why not? they had no trouble in Hull with heavy traffic, could swap lanes with the best of them, and now we have Bus lanes that is a none existent consideration anyway.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
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And what has that to do witn my reply to someone saying e-car exemption is only for wealthy Tesla owners?
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They have major difficulty in tight right angle corners, which central London is full of, slowed to a crawl, losing gantry pole contact etc. Then with a queue of cars right behind, unable to get the pole out to re-engage pole contacts, I've seen two way traffic brought to a halt for many minutes by these problems.
Why do you think they were so universally abandoned, despite being reliable and clean and cheap to run? That's rhetorical, it was because they were not compatible with modern heavy traffic in existing towns. In those where they could suit, trams are much better, which is why you see them instead both here and throughout the continent.
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Renault Zoe prices not currently (ha!) available on Renault's site. WhatCar says £13,884-£21,879 for their good deal prices. And there is a six-month waiting list (or longer).
Still means that those who cannot afford the £12,000 plus battery rental (and take the risks if they cannot keep up payments) are cut right out.
And in what way does that justify you saying the congestion charge concession was only for wealthy Tesla owners? That was rubbish, especially as Tesla's new model 3 has been delayed and would take far longer to get than a Renault Zoe.
No-one pays those prices, unless they are chumps, and I can get a new Zoe much more quickly. I know since I've just been pursuing the option.
How about this one with under 500 miles done, probably the dealer demonstrator and at only £14,999 with battery. There's more like it, clearly showing that e-cars are not a province of the wealthy any more.
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Possibly that regardless of the price of the car you need to have a level of property where you can plug it in. or live near a charging point?
There are allegedly 500 E cars currently in Hull and just two Public charging points
And here are the charging times
24kWh Battery 30kWh Battery
3.7kW Charging Point 7-8 hours 9-10 hours
7kW Charging Point 4-5 hours 5-6 hours
Practical as a Chocolate Fireguard
If you need to charge at at 7kw for 5 hours to do 150 miles you would be far better off on a bus, in fact you would need to travel home on a bus (or two) and come back when the car had charged up!
There are an awful lot of people who could not afford that sort of money for a car. The people who have to put up with what we quaintly called old bangers.
And, as oldgroaner points out, the need for charging facilities within range. Whether that is in London or where they can afford their hovels out in the slightly more affordable commuter belt.
Still totally irrelevant to my original reply to Oyster.
Anyway most e-car charging is done while at work or overnight when charge durations don't matter, and there's also the option of rapid chargers that charge to 80% in 30 minutes, a tea or coffee break.
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And there are equivalent older Zoe's and Leafs. Honestly, do I really have to lead you by the nose?
E-cars are now no dearer than i.c cars to buy and run, unless a new one kept short term when depreciation is higher. They need to be kept for a few years to be good value.
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Oh, come on, do! how many factories will provide charging facilities for their workforce?
And you still can't charge the battery overnight unless you have a garage with a charging point.
You can hardly take it out of the car and carry it up to a flat to charge it can you?
I thought John Major’s interview was very lucid and explained in clear terms the current dilemma that May and the bastards have created,commonsense would allow the house to have an open vote as to whether we should continue with Brexit but May doesn’t have the strength to allow it.
We continue bumbling along until the train crashes.
The cosy deal between Amazon and HMRC is destroying the high street,Maplin and Toys r Us will be followed by Debenhams,New Look,House of Fraser. Prezzo have announced closing 100 restaurants.
The high street has just too high overheads and is being destroyed by on-line,especially by vat illegal on-line.
KudosDave
Not factories, we have numerous street and car park chargers in London,and many retailers have them. All IKEAs have both rapid and fast chargers for example.
I'll come back to you on charging when flat living when I have more time.
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that's precisely the tactic of the hard brexiters. They drive everybody mad with their incoherence.
They know exactly what they do and the right wing press are only too happy to oblige.
Absolute minimum of £49 a month battery rental if you do less than 4,500 miles per year. Rising to £89 a month for 10,500 miles a year. With extra costs if you exceed the agreed mileage.
OG, the entire tenor of your argument is riddled with spurious objections. Dare i say it it is arguement for arguements sake. It is a classical egg and chicken situation. Companies need workers and will provide the facilities .
In the old days, companies provided bicycle sheds and canteens, not necessarily for altruism. Why would they not provide charging points? . Many workers get health insurance subsidised by employers so why not electric charging.
Many workers live in flats and tower blocks and many others live in 3 bedroom semis . Some workers commute by train, by bike, by car by foot ..
My experience is that companies do not change with the times, just leave the workers to fend for themselves.
Electric cars face a huge struggle before anyone will make the necessary investment to make them a viable alternative, however desirable that may be.
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And even if they do can our grid cope. Its as though all the required infrastructure is cost free in every sense.
Just stop and think of both the logistics of installing the required number of charging bays , the demand on using them ( both electric demand and usage) and the amount of time spent at them.
Not to mention the always forgotten fact that for every Ecar in London a dirty car moves out. Scrappage rates are pretty constant throughout country.( and way older than 2006, and rightly so. Remanufacture of cars accounts of massive pollution, if we all kept cars 40 years on a whole we,d be better off financially and environmentally, but govt and firms dont want that. They want Flecc and all of us to buy this years con..last time it was clean diesels)
On top of all this is the always forgotten environmental cost of Lithium batteries.
It simply is not as simple as Flecc suggests..not by a long way.
A friend of mine has a Tesla...he loves it. He,s just bought 3 series to sit along side it...to alleviate access to charging ..He argues the Tesla costs nothing to sit in garage, because the lower mileage it now does offsets the costs of his BMW !!!!( both tax free) He,s a garage owner so block motor trade insurance.
That's the real world..
And we will never see wholesale battery powered public transport. The bigger the vehicle the less sense batteries make. Perhaps hybrid..( running on powered cables tram/ trolley bus system with small range to negotiate difficult areas where power unavailable?)
What we should ( as a nation) be doing is getting as many as possible to clean up their old cars rather than scrapping them. Yes, its not a massive step but would make wway more sense than whats happening now..( Convert to LPG)
"Based on independent testing of nearly 9,000 cars from the EU that were manufactured recently and that have state-of-the-art pollution controls, those that run on LPG produce 11% less CO2 in operation and about 15% less from ‘well to wheel’, i.e. over the entire fuel supply chain than identical cars run on petrol.
The research also indicates that LPG cars produce less NOx than both petrol and diesel ones. In fact, when compared to diesel, five times less NOx is emitted. LPG vehicles are significantly lower on particle emissions as well.
Cleaner air quality, particular in urban areas, is a continuing issue for the nation's health.
In 2004 Department of Health statistics show that particulates are responsible for thousands of advanced deaths and thousands of instances of illness. NOx emissions are also a major element of low level ozone, which causes smog and can worsen existing asthma conditions.
Extensive independent tests showed that:
•One diesel vehicle emits 120 times the amount of fine particles as the equivalent LPG vehicle.
•It takes 20 LPG vehicles to emit the same amount of NOx as one diesel vehicle."
Source. Green Peace.( Circa 2008 !!!!)
Way cheaper than buying a leaf, could work for us all,no new cars needed and whole country would benefit. No Lithium required either..
Govt should be giving incentives for conversion and facility to change tax bands after. They would rather support big industry to sell you stuff that doesn't actually help. ( They knew all along about diesel con and know full well now battery powered cars are not way forward)
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LPG is highly toxic..its Liquid Petroleum Gas..
CO2 is mildly toxic, its the gas in pop and breathed out by us humans. The really dangerous stuff is Carbon monoxide. ( our bodies see the single oxygen molecule and grab it to use in blood but cant)
The really really dangerous stuff is Nitrides. ( When combustion temp is high enough nitrogen combines with oxygen, older engines produced little. Modern , weak running high combustion temp engines are culprit on this)
But I get your point...but we are doing nothing about it on a national level. Yes London might be cleaner..but at expense of rest of us.
The use of LPG over petrol ( and with diesel) would only be a small improvement but are you suggesting we don't need to improve nations air quality or what ?
Because the steps so far taken have done nothing.Infact the last shake up made matters worse ! ( basing tax on CO2 was ridiculous)
Out of all the products of combustion CO2 is the least dangerous and I believe none carciogenic. Particulates certainly are. Carbon monoxide is deadly. And Oxides of nitrogen equally damaging.
I dont understand your reluctance to try and reduce them all throughout country.,, not just in specific regions.
CO2 is mildly toxic, its the gas in pop and breathed out by us humans. The really dangerous stuff is Carbon monoxide. ( our bodies see the single oxygen molecule and grab it to use in blood but cant)
The really really dangerous stuff is Nitrides. ( When combustion temp is high enough nitrogen combines with oxygen, older engines produced little. Modern , weak running high combustion temp engines are culprit on this)
But I get your point...but we are doing nothing about it on a national level. Yes London might be cleaner..but at expense of rest of us.
The use of LPG over petrol ( and with diesel) would only be a small improvement but are you suggesting we don't need to improve nations air quality or what ?
Because the steps so far taken have done nothing.Infact the last shake up made matters worse ! ( basing tax on CO2 was ridiculous)
Out of all the products of combustion CO2 is the least dangerous and I believe none carciogenic. Particulates certainly are. Carbon monoxide is deadly. And Oxides of nitrogen equally damaging.
I dont understand your reluctance to try and reduce them all throughout country.,, not just in specific regions.
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