Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

Davis should come clean and tell the EU....We are paying nothing,zero,nil....

If Davis agrees to pay any money, he could say goodbye to ever become PM.

We can't pay nothing. We've signed up to some ongoing project costs to completion and if we welsh on those agreements there will be long term international consequences.

However, those amounts aren't remotely like the multi-billions that have been mentioned to date, so shouldn't be difficult to swallow.
.

 

[Kudoscycles]

We can't pay nothing. We've signed up to some ongoing project costs to completion and if we welsh on those agreements there will be long term international consequences.

However, those amounts aren't remotely like the multi-billions that have been mentioned to date, so shouldn't be difficult to swallow.
.

Nope....our Foreign Secretary,our esteemed MP's Redwood and Rees-Mug have all said we pay them nothing....the sword was always reckoned to be quick and painless than multiple chopping with the axe.
What are they going to do about it,if we welch on our commitments,perhaps when things get really bad we will be given 3rd world aid status.
I suspect that Davis has already told them 'nothing',thats why Barnier keeps saying we arent serious,what he means is we have offered nothing.
Davis is only there for an hour,it shouldnt take long to say 'nothing',then lets see what the EU will do about it.
I am still a remainer but these negotiations are getting silly,we need to know whether the EU still wants to trade with us,my Audi will last a few more years.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

A poll in the Telegraph asked voters what they thought would be an acceptable exit fee,it looks like anything more than £10 billion is not acceptable and at £10 billion its parity.
Here are the poll results. People were asked if paying an “exit fee” of up to £10bn/£20bn/£30bn/£40bn, “as a one-off or in instalments, as the UK’s contribution to spending commitments made by the EU when the UK was a member”, was acceptable or not acceptable.

£10bn

Acceptable: 41%

Not acceptable: 40%

£20bn

Acceptable: 18%

Not acceptable: 65%

£30bn

Acceptable: 11%

Not acceptable: 72%

£40bn

Acceptable: 9%

Not acceptable: 75%

Which isnt surprising in that Boris had plastered down the side of the big red bus £350 million per week back.
Flecc...what are the totals of the commitments we have made,actual contractual commitments? Is it £5 billion? I bet that is what Davis has offered and not a penny more,there are discounts due to real estate percentage ownership.
Which is why Barnier is getting frustrated,they need our money to keep the EU going.
Dont get me wrong I am still a remainer but if we leave it should not be at a punitive cost.
We need the value of those actual contractual commitments? I dont know that.
KudosDave

 

[oldgroaner]

I came across this rather alarming information
From Quora

"When you have a phone contract and pull out early. You are expected to pay the remaining cash. That commitment left on the EU “phone contract” is 60 billion. They work off 7 year budget cycles, hence all member states commit to paying into the budget for 7 years (like your 2 year phone contract). The remaining period after we leave is around 60 billion and truth be told, that’s a fair number, as that 60 billion accounts for the rebate. They could tank the rebate and ask us for the lot and it would be closer to 90 billion.

We had John Redwood MP, who has a DPhil in History (pretty much the most useless subject when it comes to calculating economic penalties) claim that we shouldn’t be required to pay. Then he made a threat. Which was that the EU would have no way of enforcing it (basically hinting that we will just leave and keep the debt open - akin to ‘what are they going to do about it?’).
here is the WTO position on it (note, everyone is a member of the WTO who is currently a member of the EU - 164 countries make up the WTO membership and we’re in it).

Understanding the WTO - A unique contribution

So if Redwood wants May to play that card, the EU hard Brexit, so we trade under WTO rules, then we can be chased for it. It’ll be 27 countries against 1 and with it being so high profile, we’d lose with the other 136 other countries too. That dispute position isn’t a negotiable position in the WTO. If we continue to breach policy, we will be required to pay both interest and compensation on top of the 60 billion. If we still fail to fulfil that obligation, the WTO have recourse to block import of the country’s goods to any other member or conduct sanctions akin to those imposed by the UN on rogue states."

Tricky!
The Government may not like it, but pay up they apparently must!

Harroo Hurray, Kalloo Kallay! in an attempt to Squirm out from under the ECJ and break eggs with a big stick, we immediately find ourselves under a court system run by the Klingon Empire!

Karma

 

[Woosh]

the common sense approach is to extend the A50 notice time to the end of the accounting period, that should reduce the divorce bill to about £20 billions.

 

[oldgroaner]

the common sense approach is to extend the A50 notice time to the end of the accounting period, that should reduce the divorce bill to about £20 billions.

Here's a cunning plan Sir
Ask for Article 50 back and promise to be good in future.
Here's another
Have we any gunboats left? always used to work.....

 

[shemozzle999]

I came across this rather alarming information
From Quora

"When you have a phone contract and pull out early. You are expected to pay the remaining cash. That commitment left on the EU “phone contract” is 60 billion. They work off 7 year budget cycles, hence all member states commit to paying into the budget for 7 years (like your 2 year phone contract). The remaining period after we leave is around 60 billion and truth be told, that’s a fair number, as that 60 billion accounts for the rebate. They could tank the rebate and ask us for the lot and it would be closer to 90 billion.

We had John Redwood MP, who has a DPhil in History (pretty much the most useless subject when it comes to calculating economic penalties) claim that we shouldn’t be required to pay. Then he made a threat. Which was that the EU would have no way of enforcing it (basically hinting that we will just leave and keep the debt open - akin to ‘what are they going to do about it?’).
here is the WTO position on it (note, everyone is a member of the WTO who is currently a member of the EU - 164 countries make up the WTO membership and we’re in it).

Understanding the WTO - A unique contribution

So if Redwood wants May to play that card, the EU hard Brexit, so we trade under WTO rules, then we can be chased for it. It’ll be 27 countries against 1 and with it being so high profile, we’d lose with the other 136 other countries too. That dispute position isn’t a negotiable position in the WTO. If we continue to breach policy, we will be required to pay both interest and compensation on top of the 60 billion. If we still fail to fulfil that obligation, the WTO have recourse to block import of the country’s goods to any other member or conduct sanctions akin to those imposed by the UN on rogue states."

Tricky!
The Government may not like it, but pay up they apparently must!

Harroo Hallay, Kalloo Kallay! in an attempt to Squirm out from under the ECJ and break eggs with a big stick, we immediately find ourselves under a court system run by the Klingon Empire!
Karma

Trouble is the EU operates as a Pay As You Go scheme hence they can not produce a legal bill.

 

[oldgroaner]

Trouble is the EU operates as a Pay As You Go scheme hence they can not produce a legal bill.

Which is no different from one of the Buy/Hire Car deals so popular these days really, is it?
The commitment is still there and enforceable, as are Phone contracts.
We could get a drubbing from the WTO, could we not?

 

[flecc]

Flecc...what are the totals of the commitments we have made,actual contractual commitments?

I don't know, and it's variable anyway. For example, we are signed up to the Galileo European satellite navigation system and the installations for that should be virtually complete next year, so maybe one final installment to pay. But then there are ongoing annual costs if we want the full high resolution service, pinpoint rather than within about 6 or so feet.

There will be numerous complexities like that among all the projects we are involved with.
.

 

[shemozzle999]

Which is no different from one of the Buy/Hire Car deals so popular these days really, is it?
The commitment is still there and enforceable, as are Phone contracts.
We could get a drubbing from the WTO, could we not?

Where does it state a termination fee in Article 50?

 

[oldgroaner]

Where does it state a termination fee in Article 50?

It has nothing to do with Article 50, has it?
Nothing whatsoever.

 

[oldgroaner]

A pin up for Tom

Bring your own Custard Pies

 

[flecc]

What are they going to do about it,if we welch on our commitments,

They (EU) won't do anything. Where we'll suffer if we renege on our commitments is that our credit rating will move sharply downwards. That in turn means we will have to pay much higher interest on our future borrowing,

Financiers always punish countries who don't keep their word.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

They (EU) won't do anything. Where we'll suffer if we renege on our commitments is that our credit rating will move sharply downwards. That in turn means we will have to pay much higher interest on our future borrowing,

Financiers always punish countries who don't keep their word.
.

And the WTO will punish us too it seems

 

[Kudoscycles]

I am not saying that we should welch on our contracted commitments but I don't see why we should contribute to the ongoing maintenance of the EU unless we want to stay in.
Am watching Ramsay and the right club ,an anti-Semitic group in the 1930,there were 250 of them ,mostly from our aristocracy,they had a supporting affinity with Hitler......I wonder who are their descendents now?
KudosDave

 

[Woosh]

I don't see why we should contribute to the ongoing maintenance of the EU unless we want to stay in.

we signed up to the EU multi year budget, up to 2020, at roughly £22 billions a year gross. Just as well make that time the transition.

 

[flecc]

I don't see why we should contribute to the ongoing maintenance of the EU unless we want to stay in.

There are so many complexities.

For example, whether we like it or not, we'll potentially be using the services of the ECJ for many years and possibly decades, until we've one by one amended every law in which it is the final arbiter.

So that makes us liable for some of the cost of running the ECJ.
.

 

[oldtom]

Those who use the major social media sites will have become aware by now of the latest government initiative, using new laws specifically created to ensure that the government's propaganda organs will be the only news available to the masses.

This 'initiative' could ultimately make 'Brexit' look like a sideshow unless people stand up to this disgusting government. For those who cannot accept that this tory administration is not only right-wing in the extreme, but is also undeniably fascist, just read this short article from the prolific left-wing blogger just closed down by May's laws as implemented by GCHQ and the secret service.

This is class war and ordinary people are being denied the ability to criticise the government or condemn its policies. How long are you prepared to do nothing and allow the elite to do as they please? 'Brexit' was never the prize sought by the fascists - total and absolute rule over a working class which will ultimately be 21st century peasants with no rights or entitlements, enforced by further new laws which the government's bought and paid for law officers and judiciary will be happy to implement.

Those who voted tory should be thoroughly ashamed.

Jihadi John's Day Off

More bad news I’m afraid. As well as all the admins for The Ragged Trousered Philanderer being locked out, I got notification today that Jihadi John’s Day Off is being unpublished . I’ve also lost access to Exposing Zionism UK: Free Palestine, another page which has 90,000 followers. Fortunately in this case there are still some admins left, but they don’t have the privileges to add new admins.
The clamp down on “internet extremism” by Theresa May was the top priority in the Queen’s Speech after buying the votes of the DUP having failed to win the election. The government has been in urgent “talks” with social media providers in the weeks since and it now looks like GCHQ can shut down dissident left wing pages on request at the drop of a hat, which is why you’ve seen so many left wing and Scottish Nationalist pages being closed down in the last few weeks.
The Ragged Trousered Philanderer was hugely influential in the weeks before the General Election, outperforming every other political page, left and right including the official Labour Party page, Jeremy Corbyn’s page, the Momentum page and the Official Theresa May and Conservative pages put together. In the final week before the election it had a reach of 26 Million. That’s why pages like this are so dangerous.
Unfortunately it now looks as though they can shut down pages and ban admins from Facebook with the touch of a button.
That’s why I’m calling it a day. There’s absolutely no sense in building up a following of a quarter of a Million spread over 6 pages if the government, via GCHQ, can get Facebook to shut down pages and ban admins. I’m not sure if the same things are happening on twitter and other social media sites, but I can’t see any way forward when it comes to influencing people through social media.
During the election, the establishment realised that it had lost its stranglehold of Billionaire media baron controlled propaganda, and they were terrified. If an ordinary working class laddie like me can set up a network of media sources with a following of over a quarter of a million people in my spare time, they must’ve been shitting bricks. And it wasn’t just me... there were scores of people doing this. This is why the government are using the guise of protecting the public from extremist content to shut us down.
All that remains is for me to thank you for following my pages over the last three years. I hope you’ve enjoyed all the jokes and memes and videos.
So long
JJ

Tom

 

[Kudoscycles]

There are so many complexities.

For example, whether we like it or not, we'll potentially be using the services of the ECJ for many years and possibly decades, until we've one by one amended every law in which it is the final arbiter.

So that makes us liable for some of the cost of running the ECJ.
.

Has anyone asked May if she wishes to continue contributing to the ECJ.
It looks like the EU is going to be very short of money without our payments,if they think they aren't getting any money from the divorce bill,they might consider considerable compromises to keep us in,which they should have helped Cameron in the first place.
I don't think this is about trade,it's about the budget of the EU.
KudosDave

 

[oldgroaner]

Has anyone asked May if she wishes to continue contributing to the ECJ.
It looks like the EU is going to be very short of money without our payments,if they think they aren't getting any money from the divorce bill,they might consider considerable compromises to keep us in,which they should have helped Cameron in the first place.
I don't think this is about trade,it's about the budget of the EU.
KudosDave

I really can't see the problem here, just pay up and the job's done, we would have done so anyway had we stayed in.
This is all a smokescreen to give the Government an excuse for "Failing" (intentionally) to get a good deal.
Stuff and nonsense the lot of it.