Brexit, for once some facts.

[Woosh]

What you failed to address is what he actually said

it's not difficult to find. JRM is on twitter

He does not say much but what he says is sometimes pretty inflammatory.

This is what he tweeted about the EU apparently blocked criminal record checks on EU citizens

Jacob Rees-Mogg‏Verified account@Jacob_Rees_Mogg Jul 21
Free movement of felons?

https://twitter.com/Jacob_Rees_Mogg/status/888380684670312448

 

[oldtom]

I would never visit, I hate all these old buildings that despoil the countryside and the endless waste of money and resources maintaining them.

I'd demolish over 95% of them, keeping only a few best examples for the historic record, also removing buildings from the brief of the National Trust.
.

In my retirement, I have been around countless country piles and great gardens but I'm afraid I have to agree with you 'flecc'; I'd demolish most of them too as they represent the iniquity of British society, a society that is geared to maintaining the interests of the wealthy few at the expense of the poor and disenfranchised.

Too many tax-breaks, spurious preservation orders, restrictive access rights, fraudulent charitable status, donations from the National Lottery, with the taxpayer picking up the bill for house maintenance and all while we have people who don't have a roof over their heads. It is not only immoral, it is absurd!

The National Trust, RHS and English Heritage to name but three organisations supporting the aristocracy's claims about the need to publicly fund these country pile owners' lifestyles should be proscribed organisations - I really don't understand how people can be so gullible as to not understand how they are being ripped off in order that multi-millionaires can further expand their personal wealth.

This is feudal England still operating but with legal backing from corrupt lawmakers, bent judges, lying, cheating politicians and a police force + secret service ready and willing to do their bidding.

As I see things, these incredibly rich, landowning people need to be culled and their lands, properties taken into public ownership with all their titles scrapped forever - they were all gangsters to begin with and nothing has changed through the years. Wedgie Benn described many years ago how they came to be the aristocracy or establishment as they are frequently called:



Tom

 

[Zlatan]

In my retirement, I have been around countless country piles and great gardens but I'm afraid I have to agree with you 'flecc'; I'd demolish most of them too as they represent the iniquity of British society, a society that is geared to maintaining the interests of the wealthy few at the expense of the poor and disenfranchised.

Too many tax-breaks, spurious preservation orders, restrictive access rights, fraudulent charitable status, donations from the National Lottery, with the taxpayer picking up the bill for house maintenance and all while we have people who don't have a roof over their heads. It is not only immoral, it is absurd!

The National Trust, RHS and English Heritage to name but three organisations supporting the aristocracy's claims about the need to publicly fund these country pile owners' lifestyles should be proscribed organisations - I really don't understand how people can be so gullible as to not understand how they are being ripped off in order that multi-millionaires can further expand their personal wealth.

This is feudal England still operating but with legal backing from corrupt lawmakers, bent judges, lying, cheating politicians and a police force + secret service ready and willing to do their bidding.

As I see things, these incredibly rich, landowning people need to be culled and their lands, properties taken into public ownership with all their titles scrapped forever - they were all gangsters to begin with and nothing has changed through the years. Wedgie Benn described many years ago how they came to be the aristocracy or establishment as they are frequently called:

View attachment 20999

Tom

Don't forget the church...they are as bad...knock them all down and build mosques...

 

[flecc]

Had it been by just a single vote, the obligation to a referendum wouldn't have been any different - the result was that we leave.

That's simplistic. The referendum was about the issue of our existing membership of the EU, whether we should leave. It wasn't about joining the EU, we already were members.

Some 37% of the electorate voted to leave, while some 35% voted to stay. Since the remaining 28% hadn't been persuaded by the Leave campaign to vote to leave and change the status quo, Leave had lost the campaign, since they'd failed to convince 63% of the electorate.

A sensible government would have recognised that and retained the status quo after such an unclear result.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

So, I guess that you are saying that JRM speaks with forked tongue, or words to that effect? You may be right of course but there are many others for whom that is not in question – they do tell lies and most of the time, especially when it comes to Brexit!


As others have implied to refer to his accent or the fact that he has more money than most of us is little more than the politics of envy. Churchill wasn’t exactly a pauper come to that and but for the war I doubt he would have ever led the country, a point that JRM tends to agree with I feel – but, cometh the hour cometh the man so, be careful what you wish for!


What you failed to address is what he actually said and were you to do so then perhaps you could explain what is wrong with it – all of it, point by point? Surely, much of it is very good and would be welcomed by those you seem to represent? In many ways, the whole debate surrounding Brexit and perhaps the wider opposing political views are about as useful as chocolate cups. For me the main problem I see is that all we get is opposition or disagreement and never a sensible offer. A sensible offer to take forward the fact that the public voted to leave the EU, lock stock and barrel.

Did you bother to follow the links I posted on the way Mogg voted? if you did the character of this man should have been apparent, where he deliberately uses half truths and omissions sprinkled with the odd fact to make what appears on the face of it to be reasonable statements to gain support
OK lets take one assertion
"It is interested in what people can do, rather than what they are unable to do, and this has underpinned Iain Duncan Smith’s disability reforms, which seek to find out what a disabled person is capable of doing, rather than assuming that the only response to disability is money.

You are kidding me aren't you? this is what the United Nations Said on that subject
"
The Government’s welfare reforms and austerity policies have led to “grave and systematic violations” of disabled people’s rights, an inquiry by the United Nations found.

The UN Committee on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities dispatched investigators to London, Manchester, Birmingham, Cardiff, Edinburgh and Belfast in October last year.

They found that a string of legislation introduced since 2010 as part of welfare reforms and austerity policies had had a negative impact, including the Welfare Reform Act 2012, Care Act 2014, and Welfare Reform and Work Act 2016.


DWP must review harmful welfare conditionality, No.10 policy unit says
UK disability charities, which have long warned against the Government’s approach to disability, said the UN findings confirmed that Tory policies are making life harder for disabled people. However, the Conservative minister in charge of the welfare system branded the committee’s approach as “patronising and offensive”.

The UN report warned that cuts and changes to disability support under the Conservative-led government had “hindered disabled people’s right to live independently and be included in the community”.

Disabled people were also routinely portrayed as being “dependent or making a living out of benefits, committing fraud as benefit claimants, being lazy or putting a burden on taxpayers”, the report found.

Still think this idiot is on the side of the angels?
"
Thousands have died after being found fit for work, DWP figures show
Campaigners demand welfare overhaul after statistics reveal 2,380 people died between 2011 and 2014 shortly after being declared able to work.

Sorry but if you can't see what is going on before your eyes there is something seriously wrong.
This man doesn't just say one thing that is plainly lies, he lies about everything, and relies on people not bothering to check, which is how the huge "Con" of Brexit was brought about.

 

[flecc]

And tories...and Stately homes...and leavers....and motorists....and patriots...and Trump...any more flecc ?
Oh ofcourse and tourism...and northerners...

Making it up again Zlatan. Where do you get motorists from, I'm one and have two cars. And Northerners and patriots, where have I criticised all of them?
.

 

[oldtom]

Some 37% of the electorate voted to leave, while some 35% voted to stay. Since the remaining 28% hadn't been persuaded by the Leave campaign to vote to leave and change the status quo, Leave had lost the campaign, since they'd failed to convince 63% of the electorate.

It's a great shame that the late, great American comic and social commentator, George Carlin wasn't around long enough to speak his mind on the referendum result........



Tom

 

[flecc]

Don't forget the church...they are as bad...knock them all down and build mosques...

The C of E has long been known as "The Tory party at Prayer", so by all means part one. But why build mosques, swapping one delusion for another?
.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Staying on a boat to economise ?? You bought a canoe ?? Must be different to my experience with boats...

OG
You know full well I voted leave but said I,d vote remain in a second ref....basically to appease all you noisy remainers ( well 6 of you)

Besides who you voting for these days OG ??? Still a fence sitting lib Dem...or are you a devout labour this week... Wasn't me who changed voting principles OG...
I was in Whitby last weekend...thought I might see you struggling up that great big hill on your Brompton...
Ps
Kudos...enjoy your caravanning...

Mines very economical only uses 6 litres per mile.,positively green!!!!
KudosDave

 

[oldgroaner]

Staying on a boat to economise ?? You bought a canoe ?? Must be different to my experience with boats...

OG
You know full well I voted leave but said I,d vote remain in a second ref....basically to appease all you noisy remainers ( well 6 of you)

Besides who you voting for these days OG ??? Still a fence sitting lib Dem...or are you a devout labour this week... Wasn't me who changed voting principles OG...
I was in Whitby last weekend...thought I might see you struggling up that great big hill on your Brompton...
Ps
Kudos...enjoy your caravanning...

I said at the time I was tempted to vote for the Laughable Demorats as they at least opposed Brexit.
You know very well I voted for Labour in the hope of unseating the Conservatives (it nearly came off) and stated I had done so at the time

Whereas you LIED and were caught out doing it about being a leaver, you said you hadn't voted!
Naughty
And then much later who declared they were wrong and I was right all along? Brexit was a bad idea?
Go on, guess.

 

[oldgroaner]

And tories...and Stately homes...and leavers....and motorists....and patriots...and Trump...any more flecc ?
Oh ofcourse and tourism...and northerners...

You are fun, do you know that?

 

[PeterL]

It's a great shame that the late, great American comic and social commentator, George Carlin wasn't around long enough to speak his mind on the referendum result........

View attachment 21000

Tom

“Scratch any cynic and you will find a disappointed idealist.”
― George Carlin

 

[flecc]

And tories...and Stately homes...and leavers....and motorists....and patriots...and Trump...any more flecc ?
Oh of course and tourism...and northerners...

Yes, North Pole residents.
.

 

[oldtom]

How's 'Brexit' going? In spite of all the propaganda being disseminated by the government's media arm, Bloomberg's see a disappointing future based on official figures. They seem to be in agreement with the view of the BofE that things don't look too healthy:

bank-of-england-is-vindicated-as-growth-deteriorates

Tom

 

[oldtom]

Most decent human beings condemn Trump's political initiatives in America and the recent neo-nazi demonstrations seen on the streets should not have come as a surprise to people in the UK. Let's not forget that our UK PM has assured the American President of our commitment to the 'Special Relationship that exists between us. She also made similar pronouncements to the Zionist government in Israel.

The attached clip might help to inform some of the uninformed that the USA isn't quite the great saviour of democracy that the Americans would like the world to believe:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1806535739607139

Tom

 

[Danidl]

the actual margin is tighter than that.
If 634,751 changed their vote, the result would have flipped.

Thanks Woosh, I appreciate the correction.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Staying on a boat to economise ?? You bought a canoe ?? Must be different to my experience with boats...

OG
You know full well I voted leave but said I,d vote remain in a second ref....basically to appease all you noisy remainers ( well 6 of you)

Besides who you voting for these days OG ??? Still a fence sitting lib Dem...or are you a devout labour this week... Wasn't me who changed voting principles OG...
I was in Whitby last weekend...thought I might see you struggling up that great big hill on your Brompton...
Ps
Kudos...enjoy your caravanning...

I was moored in a little Greek harbour,Vathi on Meganissi,having a Siesta,a noise alongside sounded like a 747 landing.
Shot up from down below to see a 120 foot speedboat,all black with jet outdrives reversing using shutters across the jets to go astern.It had twin General Electric jet turbines,marinised.
Had a chat with the smooth Italian skipper.....he explained it was the latest of Georgio Armani toys,they had bought it over from southern Italy,touching 60 knots at times....I hate to ask this how much fuel did you use?...230 miles they used 21000 litres of aviation fuel,they were waiting for a tanker to refuel,I worked out they used 4000 litres per hour ,91 litres per mile....made me feel that I was relatively a planet saver,hehe
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

The EU want us to get serious and make some genuine offers to the negotiations,that's easy....
1. The Divorce bill...we should come clean and tell the EU that we don't owe them anything.
2. Ireland.....we should tell the EU that we don't intend to act as an unpaid tax collector for the EU and we are going to leave an open border to sort itself out.
3. Rights for EU citizens....Brits in EU will be under the control of the ECJ,EU citizens in the UK will be under our court.
Oh and we don't care less about having a free trade deal in the future.
There what's all the fuss about that took about 10 mins and every Brexiter will be happy because we have committed financial suicide,but they accepted that we would be poorer.
After I wrote this posting,said tongue in cheek,but thinking about it that may be the right approach and leave the EU to stew on it....we can collect tariffs on every German car imported into the UK if a trade deal fails.
KudosDave

 

[Danidl]

The EU want us to get serious and make some genuine offers to the negotiations,that's easy....
1. The Divorce bill...we should come clean and tell the EU that we don't owe them anything.
2. Ireland.....we should tell the EU that we don't intend to act as an unpaid tax collector for the EU and we are going to leave an open border to sort itself out.
3. Rights for EU citizens....Brits in EU will be under the control of the ECJ,EU citizens in the UK will be under our court.
Oh and we don't care less about having a free trade deal in the future.
There what's all the fuss about that took about 10 mins and every Brexiter will be happy because we have committed financial suicide,but they accepted that we would be poorer.
After I wrote this posting,said tongue in cheek,but thinking about it that may be the right approach and leave the EU to stew on it....we can collect tariffs on every German car imported into the UK if a trade deal fails.
KudosDave

The hot sun has got to you!

 

[oldgroaner]

Did you bother to follow the links I posted on the way Mogg voted? if you did the character of this man should have been apparent, where he deliberately uses half truths and omissions sprinkled with the odd fact to make what appears on the face of it to be reasonable statements to gain support
OK lets take one assertion
"It is interested in what people can do, rather than what they are unable to do, and this has underpinned Iain Duncan Smith’s disability reforms, which seek to find out what a disabled person is capable of doing, rather than assuming that the only response to disability is money.

You are kidding me aren't you? this is what the United Nations Said on that subject
"
The Government’s welfare reforms and austerity policies have led to “grave and systematic violations” of disabled people’s rights, an inquiry by the United Nations found.

The UN Committee on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities dispatched investigators to London, Manchester, Birmingham, Cardiff, Edinburgh and Belfast in October last year.

They found that a string of legislation introduced since 2010 as part of welfare reforms and austerity policies had had a negative impact, including the Welfare Reform Act 2012, Care Act 2014, and Welfare Reform and Work Act 2016.


DWP must review harmful welfare conditionality, No.10 policy unit says
UK disability charities, which have long warned against the Government’s approach to disability, said the UN findings confirmed that Tory policies are making life harder for disabled people. However, the Conservative minister in charge of the welfare system branded the committee’s approach as “patronising and offensive”.

The UN report warned that cuts and changes to disability support under the Conservative-led government had “hindered disabled people’s right to live independently and be included in the community”.

Disabled people were also routinely portrayed as being “dependent or making a living out of benefits, committing fraud as benefit claimants, being lazy or putting a burden on taxpayers”, the report found.

Still think this idiot is on the side of the angels?
"
Thousands have died after being found fit for work, DWP figures show
Campaigners demand welfare overhaul after statistics reveal 2,380 people died between 2011 and 2014 shortly after being declared able to work.

Sorry but if you can't see what is going on before your eyes there is something seriously wrong.
This man doesn't just say one thing that is plainly lies, he lies about everything, and relies on people not bothering to check, which is how the huge "Con" of Brexit was brought about.

And this farce continues
"
DWP spends £39m defending decisions to strip benefits from sick and disabled people
Exclusive: Government appeal process condemned as ‘traumatic’ and a ‘waste of time and money’
The vast majority of appeals were lost by the Government last year, making the expense appear unnecessary. Early indications now show the problem is becoming even worse in 2017, with a 77 per cent rise in money spent trying to stop people from getting Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) payments.

Critics claim the situation has arisen because fitness to work assessments are deeply flawed, leading to incorrect decisions which need to be fought.

Senior Labour MP Frank Field, who worked as David Cameron’s poverty tsar, said: “What’s appalling is that the [Government] is prepared to spend £39m of taxpayers’ money against people who are desperately fighting off destitution.”

This is what the allegedly wonderful Jacob Rees Mogg actually represents
an Enemy of the people and menace to society, along with the rest of the Conservative Rabble