Brexit, for once some facts.

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
5,566
5,048
www.kudoscycles.com
What is really starting to be talked about is the expense of the holiday in Euroland,even buying Euros well it is very close to parity.
Costs have risen in many of the top holiday spots,even Brexiters are starting to come back and been shocked as how expensive the holiday cost them....this is probably the first real effect of Brexit and they don't like it.
Brexiters say they don't mind to pay for Brexit but when it hurts they are starting to have second thoughts....I have some employees who voted Brexit and haven't stopped talking about the cost of a foreign beer on their holiday.
Maybe this is why no outrage by Brexiters,the reality is now starting to hurt,maybe second thoughts.
KudosDave
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
Reactions: robdon

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
8,086
4,290
electioneering.
Coming off the fence will lose them some members.
Labour has to oppose the great repeal bill coming up shortly, so they have to state why they oppose the bill.
Horse and bolted you mean.
 

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
5,566
5,048
www.kudoscycles.com
Why on earth didn't they do this prior to last GE ???
Because Corbyn wasn't certain that core Labour voters had got UKIP out of their system,he had to hedge his bets and do some fence sitting.....balanced between hard Brexiters in vote Leave constituencies and soft Brexit in vote Remain constituences......he was very successful in satisfying everyone by deciding nothing,helped by Mays disastrous campaign.
But it is becoming obvious that May is making a mess of hard Brexit so to put some daylight between Labour and the Tories he is happy to pick up Starmer's soft Brexit.
May needs Davis to make a success of Brexit negotiations so as to quell any rebel Tories but that is not happening.....the next parliamentary vote could be the end of May,she doesn't have a majority for hard Brexit.
KudosDave
 
  • Agree
Reactions: robdon

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,379
16,876
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
'WE LOST,YOU WON,NOW DEAL WITH IT',hehe.
KudosDave
I expect shortly TM to clarify her position on the transitional arrangements in reply to labour's position. It could well be that the tories will adopt the same position to get the great repeal bill through parliament.
if we go along the EFTA model, we will be all winners.
 
  • Dislike
Reactions: robdon

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
I expect shortly TM to clarify her position on the transitional arrangements in reply to labour's position. It could well be that the tories will adopt the same position to get the great repeal bill through parliament.
if we go along the EFTA model, we will be all winners.
No we most certainly will not.
The Tory party will have achieved it's objective of being free to set whatever laws take it's fancy regardless of Human Rights as they will regard the EFTA rules as merely temporary toothless guidelines they can ignore, which will only require lip service for the short term of our membership.

The most dangerous of all situations for the future of the Nation
 
  • Agree
Reactions: oldtom and robdon

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
5,566
5,048
www.kudoscycles.com
I expect shortly TM to clarify her position on the transitional arrangements in reply to labour's position. It could well be that the tories will adopt the same position to get the great repeal bill through parliament.
if we go along the EFTA model, we will be all winners.
The Tory 'bastards' wont let TM to go soft on Brexit....Labour is soft,Tory are hard Brexit....parliament will decide when TM tries to get the repeal bill through parliament,the vote will be very close,decided by rebels on either side.
Hammond tried going softish Brexit and he was knocked back.
The only resolution is a 2nd referendum.
KudosDave
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,379
16,876
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
The Tory 'bastards' wont let TM to go soft on Brexit.
they could do so because JC lets them.
The debate has been monopolised by Rees Mogg, Raab & Co for so long. Well, labour now has a position and a voice.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
The Express becomes more desperate by the day with this sort of stuff and nonsense
"
Brexit VICTORY as UK set to win on first agreement with EU despite bloc's stalling tactics
BREXIT negotiators are on the brink of securing the terms of a key trade issue that is expected to be finalised in the next round of talks with the bloc."

Even more unlikely is this

'Get on with it' David Davis orders EU to stop Brexit delaying tactics
DAVID Davis will today urge EU Brexit negotiators to end their stonewalling tactics amid growing pressure from European business for the swift conclusion of a trade deal with Britain.

So "thick as mince" can order them about?

 
  • Agree
Reactions: robdon

anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
7,845
5,786
The European Union
Lovely cartoon in the Guardian

 

anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
7,845
5,786
The European Union
  • Like
Reactions: robdon

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
It looks like hard Brexit is on the way out, what with the Japan visit and this from the BBC
"
Economic issues are a priority, say UK and German firms
The UK is the third largest market for the export of German goods, while Germany is the UK's second biggest market for exports of goods and services.

German firms employ an estimated 400,000 workers in the UK, while British firms employ around 220,000 workers in Germany.

"Many of our members are reporting that they are already shifting investments away from the UK in anticipation of these barriers," he added.

You have to wonder how many of the 400,000 voted for Brexit and still would if it costs them their jobs...especially as the Leave vote only won by a million or so votes.
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
Reactions: robdon

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
Well, at least you all seem to be in agreement.
Welcome Peter, but I have to say we are not all in agreement, there are comments raised by both sides and they are all welcome, remember that both leave and remain voters are not enemies, they all care about the future of the nation, simply disagree on how to proceed with the journey.
And there are clear divisions as to whether the main interest is in the economy, or Human rights.

And some of us, myself included are Federalist looking forward to a United States of Europe as Winston Churchill Envisaged.

Feel free to give us your views whatever they may be.
 

PeterL

Esteemed Pedelecer
Aug 19, 2017
998
172
Dundee
Welcome indeed and many thanks.

Much as I applaud Winston Churchill and his ideas for a United States of Europe, time has, of course, marched on and what may well have fitted the world as he saw it at the time – things change, often for the worst. People adapt, take advantage perhaps and to a point no one seems to have, or accept personal responsibility anymore, preferring instead to rely on the state. Personally, I don’t like that and I suppose that makes me both a conservative, with a small ‘c’ and perhaps why I believe that we are better out of the EU.

Jacob Rees-Mogg was mentioned earlier in the thread. Let me offer a recent insight to the man. This is what he said, in black and white.

Writing about oneself is boring, but ideas are not. The question for Conservatives is “What do we want to propose to the electorate and how can we deliver it?” The last election campaign was too managerial and lacked inspiration. An effective manifesto does not need a great list of specific promises, it must instead set out a principled foundation on which each policy may be built.

Unlike the socialist, the Conservative believes that society is built from the bottom up, not the top down. Individuals come together to form families, communities and nations. The instruments of government are there to serve not to command. The random mass of individual decisions will better suit the comfort of the nation than the careful direction of resources from Whitehall. I am not the first to point out that, every day in London, 10 million lunches are served without the need for ministerial involvement.

It follows from this view that the state is there to enable people to lead the lives they wish as far as possible without conflicting with their neighbours. Policy decisions flow from this and it is the moral basis for what the government does. It is interested in what people can do, rather than what they are unable to do, and this has underpinned Iain Duncan Smith’s disability reforms, which seek to find out what a disabled person is capable of doing, rather than assuming that the only response to disability is money.

In terms of taxation, the view that individuals matter is a reminder that the money belongs to a specific person, and the state may only take what it needs. Generally, people will spend their own money more effectively than the government and there is no money at all, except for that earned in the private sector. Public sector workers may pay tax, but that merely circulates money between departments; tax paid by NHS workers comes and goes from the consolidated fund with some administrative expense in between.

In addition to low taxation being right in terms of ownership, it is also better economically. The recent cut in corporation tax, one of George Osborne’s most successful policies, has more than doubled the tax received. This has helped businesses afford to invest and employ people leading to a stronger economy and allowing the Government more easily to finance its expenditure. This example ought to be applied to income tax and, as a matter of urgency, to stamp duty.

Going with the grain of what people want is not only important in terms of taxation. The Grenfell Tower was not created because people chose to live in tower blocks, but because, from the Second World War onward, officialdom wanted tower blocks – despite opinion surveys consistently showing that the overwhelmingly majority of people want to live in houses with gardens.

But the state thought it knew best. Regrettably some Conservatives went along with this, though tower blocks are the physical embodiment of socialism. Would it not be better to pull them down, build houses, even if this requires more space, which it often does not, and then sell them at a discount to the current occupants of tower blocks? It would help people have what they want, and reinvigorate home ownership, which creates a stable society but also meets a natural, almost fundamental, human ambition.

As with tower blocks, so with energy policy It is striking how wrong the big state can be. It was the “Nanny knows best” approach that led to the scandal over diesel emissions. To risk public health today, for a carbon dioxide policy made irrelevant by emerging markets was the worst sort of political grandstanding. Similarly, the tariffs on Chinese solar panels put up the cost of energy subsidies at the expense of the poorest in the land. Meanwhile, the market is providing cleaner energy; in the United States, renewable energy is growing rapidly as it becomes more economic, and shale gas has helped reduce emissions significantly. Conservatives should recognise that individual ingenuity and business acumen do better than central planning.

Conservatives ought to back the free market, but that is not the same as big business. We must tackle monopolies. Big business loves regulation – and incidentally the European Union – because it keeps out competition, maintains high prices and reduces the power of the individual consumer. The role of the state here is to back the customer, not the producer. In some areas this is easy: supermarkets are highly competitive and need little interference. The monopolists tend to have high levels of capital invested, and many customers.

As a constituency MP, the worst organisation I deal with is BT, but it is not alone as a scarcely competent monopolist. The energy companies have a degree of arrogance towards the customers, while both banks and insurance firms penalise loyalty and the BBC writes eye-wateringly rude letters to people who do not own a television, assuming that they must be crooks. This is not about price caps, but about tilting the scales back towards the individual: if a company can penalise me for not paying on time, I ought to be able to fine it for sending out the wrong bill.

Each of us wants to improve our own standard of living and to see our children better off than we are. This is best done by freeing individuals to maximise their own successes through government that has confidence in their capacities, which trusts the people.

This is the kind of society that I want to live in. I certainly don’t expect that Jacob is the man to deliver it, or at least not in person and I know for sure that JC won’t even get close. He even thinks that the EU is right-wing!

So, yes, I want out and sincerely believe that given a few years it will prove to have been the best decision we have made in many a year. That said it would be so much better if we could at least provide a united front to the negotiations instead of playing politics.
 

Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
8,611
12,256
73
Ireland
This sounds very uncomfortable

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/aug/26/japan-brexit-concessions-theresa-may-visit

Enjoy your trip to Japan Wicked Witch. Oh and I wouldn't eat any of the poisonous fish dishes, they are delicious but you never know with these people, ask Major Jack 'Strafer' Celliers... :rolleyes:
.. what if during these types of discussion the japenese, and others said privately to Mrs May.. "are you off your trolley, , Brexit is a stupid stupid idea , our interest in the UK is as a transit area for 650 million not 60 million. "
 
  • Agree
Reactions: robdon

Advertisers