Brexit, for once some facts.

[Woosh]

Common sense is returning.
The last move from labour has been expected and a logical one.
The logical step is to stay within the single market while negotiating EFTA membership or a similar deal with the EU. The tories make no sense to impinge their hard bexit goals onto the transitional period. That would not be a transition at all.
They will now have to adopt labour's position too, or something close to it.

 

[oldgroaner]

Common sense is returning.
The last move from labour has been expected and a logical one.
The logical step is to stay within the single market while negotiating EFTA membership or a similar deal with the EU. The tories make no sense to impinge their hard bexit goals onto the transitional period. That would not be a transition at all.
They will now have to adopt labour's position too, or something close to it.

It isn't common sense so much as an inevitable and pointless exercise of baling out our leaking lifeboat with a teaspoon.

They don't feel they have any choice because they lack the imagination to say the shortest word in the language to the madness of Brexit

Events are forcing the Government into the usual catch 22 of doing too little, too late, and in completely the wrong direction for the wrong reasons.

So what happens next?
The Tories announce they will take the same approach, so Labour's so called "Bright idea" is shot down in flames, and nothing has changed, as the Government will simply ignore the "New Policy" as it has all the previous ones, and do what it darned well likes.

After all, what are promises to Tory Politicians? they use the "Pirates Code"
And their ambition is to rule the Nation as the Norman Invaders did, as a Feudal State, writing their own laws with no checks and balances on their excesses.

 

[Woosh]

So what happens next?

If the tories adopt labour's position on brexit, we pay the divorce bill, we agree on the direction of an FTA along the lines of EFTA or joining EFTA during the transitional period.
The way forward is straight.
The change will be gradual, EU nationals will be able to work here, British pensioners can retire where they want and the UK can do deals with other countries.

 

[oldgroaner]

If the tories adopt labour's position on brexit, we pay the divorce bill, we agree on the direction of an FTA along the lines of EFTA or joining EFTA during the transitional period.
The way forward is straight.
The change will be gradual, EU nationals will be able to work here, British pensioners can retire where they want and the UK can do deals with other countries.

And the Government is free to oppress the people with no checks and balances on the laws they write.
Plus we can sell all the things we have no means of producing all around the world from industries we don't have.
And you think they wont take the NHS to the cleaners and sell off everything to their friends?
Well, good luck with that.
Put me down for some of that "Free Beer tomorrow"

 

[Woosh]

Plus we can sell all the things we have no means of producing all around the world from industries we don't have.

The world moves toward a knowledge economy and if we continue to be good in trading, why not? it is a more plausible strategy for us to invest, buy and sell - I don't see anything wrong with this.

And you think they wont take the NHS to the cleaners and sell off everything to their friends?

I have not been seriously ill in my entire life. Then I experience the NHS hospital last year for the first time since coming to England. TBH, it's no match for the French health care. I am against privatising it but It is in need of an awful lot more spending on it.

 

[oldgroaner]

The world moves toward a knowledge economy and if we continue to be good in trading, why not? it is a more plausible strategy for us to invest, buy and sell - I don't see anything wrong with this.



I have not been seriously ill in my entire life. Then I experience the NHS hospital last year for the first time since coming to England. TBH, it's no match for the French health care. I am against privatising it but It is in need of an awful lot more spending on it.

You are forgetting that this country has a population of 65 plus millions that have to be gainfully occupied, fed and cared for and the palliatives you mention are utterly inadequate to cope with that requirement.
The present socio-economic model in use is as out of date to deal with present and future times as that of a Feudal Society which is on the point of making a big come back here.

Bigger things than mere profit are at stake.
And the NHS saved my life when I contracted Prostate Cancer.
It fulfilled it's purpose, which means from my point of view it is of more value than any other of the organs of State, including the Government.
In my case it was literally a matter of life or Death.

 

[Woosh]

And the NHS saved my life when I contracted Prostate Cancer.
It fulfilled it's purpose, which means from my point of view it is of more value than any other of the organs of State, including the Government.

The way the NHS is organised at the moment, the treatments are excellent when your life is endangered but the opposite before you contract the disease in the first place.
Men over 45 should be monitored for PSA level as much as cholesterol and glycated sugars, liver function, thyroid hormones etc every year, not waiting for them to feel unwell before something is done and certainly not keeping 4 million patients on waiting list for elective surgeries.

 

[oldgroaner]

Men over 45 should be monitored for PSA level as much as cholesterol and glycated sugars, liver function, thyroid hormones etc every year, not waiting for them to feel unwell before something is done and certainly not keeping 4 million patients on waiting list for elective surgeries.

I was, and that was how it was found, with first a slightly high PSA reading then secondly a sky high one, and I am still monitored for this after six years.

 

[oldtom]

Some recent views on 'Brexit' matters:

these-4-letters-about-brexit-all-went-viral-its-easy-to-see-why

Tom

 

[flecc]

I have not been seriously ill in my entire life. Then I experience the NHS hospital last year for the first time since coming to England. TBH, it's no match for the French health care.

Very true, people tend to full of praise for the NHS, defensively I suppose, but frankly it falls miles short of what a health care system should be like these days. France does much better and has done for a long time.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

Very true, people tend to full of praise for the NHS, defensively I suppose, but frankly it falls miles short of what a health care system should be like these days. France does much better and has done for a long time.
.

Agreed, but I wouldn't want to go back to the world you and I were born into, and yet people seem to accept that as inevitable.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Wonder how May will react to Corbyn.....she doesn't seem very good at making the right decision.
Brexit negotiations are going so badly that she may want to look for an out,but stay in power. If she carries on the current way she will become against an increasingly difficult parliament to get votes through...many rebel Tories may vote with Labour to retain the single market,that will be the end of Fox and Davis.
I think she may go for another referendum and say that she needs reassurance from the electorate to proceed with Brexit ,now that the implications are more apparent.....she could say that 'she is satisfying the will of the people' ,making sure that will hasn't changed.
She wouldn't dare go for another GE,especially after Corbyn has announced his soft Brexit position,which may be attractive to voters who now are against a hard Brexit....Brexit is obviously going to make us a lot poorer,as Hammond said 'voters didn't vote to make us poorer'.
I think Remainers would also accept the result,whatever that may be,on the basis that this vote is based on many facts not Boris's lies. Ardent Brexiters (ex UKIP) will be furious if the vote was no Brexit.
Or she could resign and let hell break out in the Tories,which in practical terms will be the end of any deal on Brexit.
KudosDave

 

[Woosh]

Wonder how May will react to Corbyn.....she doesn't seem very good at making the right decision.

There is no glory in brexit, the result was too close for strong, clear public support, especially if prices go up and civil servants' wages don't.
in her shoes, I'd go soonest and let the conservative party find out for itself.

 

[oldgroaner]

The Right wing nut jobs seem to enjoy popularity among those in the population who fear foreigners
This lot for instance

An old school friend on facebook "shared" this so I put an informative post on the web site to correct the more glaring errors
"So your message is that it is't patriotic to be left wing? obviously you have forgotten that the Tory party wanted to surrender to Hitler in 1940 and Churchill had to turn to the left wing labour party for support to prevent them doing so. So much for Right Wing Patriotism.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Keir Starmer has always been a supporter of staying in the single market and customs union. Corbyn has disagreed with him but never sacked him,Corbyn seems to be tentatively supportive towards Starmer but with care,dependent on how Labour voters receive it.
Labour now have power but without the responsibility of being in power.
If Starmer,bless him.....give him a knighthood,has his way we will have such a soft Brexit that to all practical purposes we stayed in.....it may become obvious that we might as well stay in.
Wonder what the currency markets will make of this?
Would love to be a fly on the wall listening to discussions between May,Fox and Davis.....oh dear looks like Fox won't have a job,might as well resign.
Where is Farage,bring back UKIP,hehe.
Assuming this abandons hard Brexit I wonder how much money has been wasted on this Brexit experiment. Is this 'the beginning of the end' or 'the end of the beginning' ?
KudosDave

 

[Zlatan]

Keir Starmer has always been a supporter of staying in the single market and customs union. Corbyn has disagreed with him but never sacked him,Corbyn seems to be tentatively supportive towards Starmer but with care,dependent on how Labour voters receive it.
Labour now have power but without the responsibility of being in power.
If Starmer,bless him.....give him a knighthood,has his way we will have such a soft Brexit that to all practical purposes we stayed in.....it may become obvious that we might as well stay in.
Wonder what the currency markets will make of this?
Would love to be a fly on the wall listening to discussions between May,Fox and Davis.....oh dear looks like Fox won't have a job,might as well resign.
Where is Farage,bring back UKIP,hehe.
Assuming this abandons hard Brexit I wonder how much money has been wasted on this Brexit experiment. Is this 'the beginning of the end' or 'the end of the beginning' ?
KudosDave

Why on earth didn't they do this prior to last GE ???

 

[Woosh]

Would love to be a fly on the wall listening to discussions between May,Fox and Davis.....oh dear looks like Fox won't have a job,might as well resign.
Where is Farage,bring back UKIP,hehe.

Johnson, Fox and Davis would probably welcome it.
TM will never be able to control any of them.
The conservative party has always been uneasy with themselves on the issue of Europe. None of their leaders could be openly europhile despite the fact that all of them have taken us deeper into the European union.
Labour adopting a clear position on the transitional period will encourage the hard brexiters to show that they have real teeth within the party and a chance for Nigel Farage to come again to the television.
Expect fireworks next month at the tories party conference. It's a perfect opportunity for Johnson, Davis and Fox to attempt a takeover.

 

[oldgroaner]

Why on earth didn't they do this prior to last GE ???

The Ouija Board had broken down would be my guess.

 

[Woosh]

Why on earth didn't they do this prior to last GE ???

electioneering.
Coming off the fence will lose them some members.
Labour has to oppose the great repeal bill coming up shortly, so they have to state why they oppose the bill.

 

[oldgroaner]

What is curious is the way that on the face of it the Government and the opposition are colluding to prepare the public for a Volte face on Brexit.

Possible or imaginary? odd that the opposition take a stance and when there isn't a flurry of public anger against it, it then is possible to discuss the proposals being mooted in the press, and very little is coming back from "The Dark Side" such as the three Brexiteers, Farage and even Moggie and Gollum.

Perhaps the most exclusive club in the land is closing ranks because the real power in the land has come to a decision, and it's time to TELL the People what the will of the People is permitted to be now?