I'll give it to you, you are polishing this one. I think one does need to know what it means to buy it. That - not feeling we need to be experts - is a crucial mistake the electorate made with brexit referendum. That's before we get to 'government could sell'. You are morally wrong. This process isn't about what politicians 'can sell'. It's about the political equivalent of informed consent. Brexit was all about what politicians can sell. You still seem to be on the same bus(terrible pun). Then we get to what Boris davis and may 'can sell'. Nothing sums it up I think.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
I think all participants on this thread agree at least on one point, the need to be informed. But if you need popular support, you have to sell your idea because a lot of people for one reason or another, won't be sufficiently informed to the point of reaching certainty.
yes, I have no problem with that.
Even foolishness is a relative value. In order to measure anything, you need some reference.
Not to get hung up on facts (I gather you prefer popular consensus), But you didn't say which 'poll' said 7 out of 10 voters would buy efta from may et al? Also, you do realise Hammond lost that bit of infighting with the hard brexitters? Speaking for myself, I fundamentally disagree with your prioritising convincing others over granting them knowledge to make informed decisions.
Woosh, I also have a physics background, not everything is relative. There are absolutes. There are principles and operational laws, when more information becomes available, sometimes these principles have to be amended , .. the classical gas laws as an example. They were not proved wrong, just inadequate, at extremes.
In politics and human negotiations, it is always desirable to put ones self iin the others shoes to see their perspective.., not the same thing
Could someone pass me the maple syrup I am having trouble digesting all this waffle.
Ultimately it will be up to the EP to decide on the outcome of any deal.
They will all be up for re-election after Brexit they need to judge the reaction of their electorate before they vote so they can secure their position for another 5 year term at the trough.
If you think they understand what Brexit means then think again because they had to commission a report to have it explained to them even though they operate within the close EU community.
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/IDAN/2017/583130/IPOL_IDA(2017)583130_EN.pdf
Ultimately it will be up to the EP to decide on the outcome of any deal.
They will all be up for re-election after Brexit they need to judge the reaction of their electorate before they vote so they can secure their position for another 5 year term at the trough.
If you think they understand what Brexit means then think again because they had to commission a report to have it explained to them even though they operate within the close EU community.
http://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/IDAN/2017/583130/IPOL_IDA(2017)583130_EN.pdf
I have never seen any universal truth, besides the human intuitive sense of right and wrong. All exact sciences rely on principles, those that members agree to be true as in measuring systems. If you change the reference or the units, they cease to be correct. Besides principles, axioms are the next bases that scientists use for their work and they eare even flimsier than principles. If you take Newtonian physics, it ceases to be correct when the scale gets to atomic level or galaxy level, that demonstrates that correctness needs some reference in order for people to agree with one another. My field of study was diffusion movements, where many thermodynamic functions need a lot of changes to be applicable, hence I was concerned with the issue of 'truth or correctness?'
And they took the trouble and published it too.
Note the Date :Manuscript completed in March 2017
I read it with Great interest, have you forwarded a copy to TM?
Makes you wonder why didn't do the same and still have no plan,
Do pass the Maple syrup, there's a good chap. The waffles we get from our Government went stale a year ago.
Boris has a track record of backing failures...the Guardian has listed a number of Boris 'vanity' projects during his time as London mayor...the list includes the cancelled garden Thames bridge and the ridiculous Boris island airport .....the total comes to £940 million.....peanuts to what he can potentially waste on Brexit,but I suppose you have to start somewhere.
KudosDave
KudosDave
Of course they don't understand what Brexit means, no-one does, least of all the Brexiters.
All anyone knows with certainty is that at best it's a leap into the unknown based on faith.
.
Cognitive Dissonance means that Universal Truth like the Force is with you always and you don't perceive it.
Otherwise you are already dead
This might help
Pro Brexit Logic.....
I must have a very low Midi-chlorian count because the force is seldomly with me.
OG and OT are not convinced by my jedi suggestions.
So, how come you end up flogging cheap Chinese Ebikes?.....or is that just a hobby - your day job is at NASA?
Tom
I've been sitting at a desk for almost my entire career, until I got type 2 diabetes so I thought a bike shop is just what I need to save myself from the disease. As for why Chinese bikes, I've always like getting a bit more for my money.So, how come you end up flogging cheap Chinese Ebikes?.....or is that just a hobby - your day job is at NASA?
Tom
I have to admire any form of investigative and logical processing that concludes the efficacy of owning a bike shop as a response to Type 2 Diabetes.
Were immediately beneficial results gained, or is it a case like Brexit of the application of a level of Infinite Patience that would have made Confucius proud?
Still Keep up the Good work, this is obviously a case of going were no man (read person) has gone before.
Full marks for innovation.
'human intuitive sense of right and wrong'? Have you read Lord of the flies? Or been to Praia de battata at 3AM? Human intuition has a lot to do with evolution not right or wrong. Treating others the way you want to be treated is an absolute principle in ethics (which is why I'm with husserl and think giving others information and space to make their own decisions matter, as does not going populist and trying to manipulate them to see things ones way)
Something about woosh's defence of brexit over past few pages(and I do admire it, sincerely, at least he tries, which is a great deal more than the primordial noises one gets from other brexiters) tells me he knows a thing, or two (or three) about cognitive dissonance...(comical ali would approve)Cognitive Dissonance means that Universal Truth like the Force is with you always and you don't perceive it.
Otherwise you are already dead
This might help
Pro Brexit Logic.....
Would you not agree that there are absolutes.. how many triangles have you seen with 4 sides, irrespective of the planes of reference, does the concept of absolute zero on the temperature scale not have universal applicability.. otherwise our belief in the big bang theory goes bang... Do not the spectrum lines of any element occupy the same relative spacing, otherwise our whole theory of astronomy goes out the window. These are truths and we base our entire sciences of physics chemistry and the applied sciences of biology, geosciences on the systematic application of these observations. If and when observations arise which are in conflict with preconceived notions, we then, don't believe in magic, but we decide experiments in order to isolate the parameters of the new phenomenon. There would be no point in so doing unless the science community believed that the universe is understandable and obeys fundamental objective truths.
In your experiences in thermodynamics, I am surmising that while you believed there were fundamental forces at work, the complexity of the energy exchanges, defeated your ( and presumably others) competence to model them adaquately. Otherwise you would have got different results every time you ran a calculation or an experiment.