Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

"
Tory election spending: Conservatives could sue anyone making 'false' claims about the party's candidates
The Crown Prosecution Service says no charges will be brought in almost all cases under consideration
he Conservatives have signalled they could sue anyone making "false" claims about the party's candidates, after it emerged no charges will be brought over allegations of electoral fraud.

Conservative Party Chairman Patrick McLaughlin slammed "malicious" allegations that he claimed had been made relating to Tory spending in the 2015 election campaign.

He and other Tory's also accused rivals of making "politically motivated" accusations, with one Conservative fighting to retain his seat claiming there had been a witch-hunt.
Despite the CPS decision not to pursue charges in most cases, there is still danger the affair may hit the Conservative's 2017 election campaign, with one case outstanding and police still considering whether the party's treasurer at the time should face further action.

But Mr McLaughlin said: "After a very thorough investigation, we are pleased that the legal authorities have confirmed what we believed was the case all along, that these Conservative candidates did nothing wrong.

"These were politically motivated and unfounded complaints that have wasted police time. We are glad that this matter is finally resolved.

"A number of false and malicious claims continue to be spread on the internet. People should be aware that making false claims about a candidate’s personal character and conduct is an electoral offence, as well as being defamatory."

What can you say? oh the joys of a nation in the throes of Brexit for a bright free future.

 

[oldgroaner]

While the election is going on, so is this
"
On Thursday the Society of Motor Manufacturers announced new car sales had plunged 19.8 per cent year-on-year in April. There were some extenuating factors, but the size of the drop clearly pointed to consumers’ purchasing power falling and a more challenging time ahead for the industry.

The Bank of England also reported that mortgage approvals for house purchases dropped to a six-month low in March, the second successive drop and evidence the housing market is also being pinched by the squeeze on consumers.
he Bank’s data then showed the growth rate in net unsecured consumer credit slowed to an eight-month low in the same month.

Another senior Tory said: “The economic indicators have all been there and must have been a factor in the election. The financial crash seems recent, but it was years ago and we are due a downturn anyway.

“Rising inflation means people are beginning to feel the squeeze. They are seeing their money buy less in the supermarket and wages are still not rising that fast. If you get an inflation [wage] rise, that’s better than nothing.

“Philip [Hammond, the Chancellor,] would have looked at the data and said ‘if you are going to go, this is the best time’.”

The MP also pointed to signals from Mr Hammond and May that in their 2017 manifesto they will ditch the pension and tax locks enshrined by David Cameron in the 2015 election document.

They added: “If you are trying to untie your hands, it’s because you need them to deal with something that’s coming.”

There was a time when May’s party said the “strong and stable” governance it could provide was about the economic pitfalls ahead – at conference last year Mr Hammond even said the economy faced a Brexit "rollercoaster" ride.

 

[Zlatan]

Actually he can, and does, quite obviously.

So what are you suggesting? give us all a clue
You voted for Brexit, and it's coming, so what do we do now?
Your shout, you broke it, tell us how to fix it.
Why did you vote to destroy something without a practical aternative to offer?

Was already broken by Tories, just thhat folk are blaming Brexit.

 

[Zlatan]

Our own feelings re wether 60 year olds should be running unto burning buildings are irrelevant, it was thought for many years too old...but just to explain what our govt do to workers.
Was put forward retirement age would be put up to 60..FBU immediately put in objections....Govt agreed originally and said folk not capable ( ie failing tests) would be offered moves to office jobs...Interim agreement put in place...abd then cuts to funding along with many office jobs lost/ privatised ...and forced on service that failing medical would result in sacking...loss of pension...
A generation of fire service personnel went into job expecting to retire at 50 but pay higher amounts into pension plans.. They are looking at serving an extra 10 years.. .aand having to pass anual physical....whilst rest of us are starting to sit back a bit. Many will be leaving...and have left. Many more demoralised. Not a healthy way to treat personel...
No matter how you look at it, wether you see it as right or wrong it represents far worse conditions of service .Caused by govt.. and not even having to break any EU directives...Very similar story in education, Police...and others bo doubt. Helped in no small measure by Cameron accidently breaking unions...
This has happened whilst in EU , anybody thinking conditions of service are safe in Tory hands in or out of EU is at best niave.
The evidence is everywhere.
Its just so ironic all these remainers shouting about worker welfare and how it will be ruined out of EU but refuse to accept this process has been going on for years...so how on earth can staying in make any difference.

 

[Danidl]

Our own feelings re wether 60 year olds should be running unto burning buildings are irrelevant, it was thought for many years too old...but just to explain what our govt do to workers.
Was put forward retirement age would be put up to 60..FBU immediately put in objections....Govt agreed originally and said folk not capable ( ie failing tests) would be offered moves to office jobs...Interim agreement put in place...abd then cuts to funding along with many office jobs lost/ privatised ...and forced on service that failing medical would result in sacking...loss of pension...
A generation of fire service personnel went into job expecting to retire at 50 but pay higher amounts into pension plans.. They are looking at serving an extra 10 years.. .aand having to pass anual physical....whilst rest of us are starting to sit back a bit. Many will be leaving...and have left. Many more demoralised. Not a healthy way to treat personel...
No matter how you look at it, wether you see it as right or wrong it represents far worse conditions of service .Caused by govt.. and not even having to break any EU directives...Very similar story in education, Police...and others bo doubt. Helped in no small measure by Cameron accidently breaking unions...
This has happened whilst in EU , anybody thinking conditions of service are safe in Tory hands in or out of EU is at best niave.
The evidence is everywhere.
Its just so ironic all these remainers shouting about worker welfare and how it will be ruined out of EU but refuse to accept this process has been going on for years...so how on earth can staying in make any difference.

.. I believe that the point they are making is that without the brake of the EU and potential ECJ sanction the process of reducing workers standards will accelerate. Bad and all as things are now they can get worse.
The majority if not all other European countries have written consitutions which put limits on the power of the executive and guarantee s through its courts the rights of citizens. The UK does not and I suspect is now suffering. The UK have boasted about this in the past, but I believe it to be a weakness.
By withdrawing from the ECJ , UK citizens will lose a potential legal pathway for remedy of government induced actions.

 

[Zlatan]

.. I believe that the point they are making is that without the brake of the EU and potential ECJ sanction the process of reducing workers standards will accelerate. Bad and all as things are now they can get worse.
The majority if not all other European countries have written consitutions which put limits on the power of the executive and guarantee s through its courts the rights of citizens. The UK does not and I suspect is now suffering. The UK have boasted about this in the past, but I believe it to be a weakness.
By withdrawing from the ECJ , UK citizens will lose a potential legal pathway for remedy of government induced actions.

Good post.
My feeling is a change if government to a more socially minded one is more a priority than staying or leaving EU.
Our current Tory's can do as they please with scant regard to challenge from opposition. That's doing the damage. A strong Labour would hold government in check far than EU ever could.???

 

[flecc]

People should be aware that making false claims about a candidate’s personal character and conduct is an electoral offence, as well as being defamatory."

Quite true, the candidates did nothing wrong.

But Conservative Central Office did do wrong. They advised that the campaign bus and hotel expenses for travelling campaigners were legally not part of candidate expenditure. That was wrong in law, since the purpose of the bus and volunteer visits to the candidate's area was working for a good local result, i.e, supporting the candidate. The CPS and police couldn't be bothered to undertake the considerable work in building a multi-location evidence backed case, but that doesn't mean all was well.
.

 

[flecc]

A strong Labour would hold government in check far than EU ever could.???

True, but as I've observed, we cannot have a strong Labour government now, or even in the short term future, no matter who leads it or what policies they have.
.

 

[Zlatan]

True, but as I've observed, we cannot have a strong Labour government now, or even in the short term future, no matter who leads it or what policies they have.
.

But to put hopes into EU as saviours of socialism is equally unrealistic.
I do think a change in labour policies would be a step in right direction.

 

[oldgroaner]

Was already broken by Tories, just thhat folk are blaming Brexit.

Cracked, yes, broken into pieces not, so now you have completed the sabotage, what do you suggest?

 

[oldgroaner]

But to put hopes into EU as saviours of socialism is equally unrealistic.
I do think a change in labour policies would be a step in right direction.

Only unrealistic in right wing countries, the EU will thrive while we fail.

 

[oldgroaner]

Our own feelings re wether 60 year olds should be running unto burning buildings are irrelevant, it was thought for many years too old...but just to explain what our govt do to workers.
Was put forward retirement age would be put up to 60..FBU immediately put in objections....Govt agreed originally and said folk not capable ( ie failing tests) would be offered moves to office jobs...Interim agreement put in place...abd then cuts to funding along with many office jobs lost/ privatised ...and forced on service that failing medical would result in sacking...loss of pension...
A generation of fire service personnel went into job expecting to retire at 50 but pay higher amounts into pension plans.. They are looking at serving an extra 10 years.. .aand having to pass anual physical....whilst rest of us are starting to sit back a bit. Many will be leaving...and have left. Many more demoralised. Not a healthy way to treat personel...
No matter how you look at it, wether you see it as right or wrong it represents far worse conditions of service .Caused by govt.. and not even having to break any EU directives...Very similar story in education, Police...and others bo doubt. Helped in no small measure by Cameron accidently breaking unions...
This has happened whilst in EU , anybody thinking conditions of service are safe in Tory hands in or out of EU is at best niave.
The evidence is everywhere.
Its just so ironic all these remainers shouting about worker welfare and how it will be ruined out of EU but refuse to accept this process has been going on for years...so how on earth can staying in make any difference.

perhaps you have not been listening...people have been complaining about the Government, that's why most of them voted for Brexit, to damage it.
Pity that turned out to have precisely the opposite effect of making it even more rabid, so how do you propose you and those who voted for Brexit are going to fix it? it's your responsibility now.
And don't give us the old argument we don't have the power, that was what you said about the EU.
What was the point of voting for Brexit when it has so obviously made matters worse?
How can coming out make any differerence?
Apart from making more people poor and hungery and damaging their rights when the Torys repeal the Human Rights act and re write it?

 

[Woosh]

We have cheap labour already thanks to the Tory's and they still want the same migrants to come as before.
What have we gained?

cheap labour is mainly concentrated in the unskilled sector and can be largely linked to availability of workers coming from new member countries (post cold war and Eastern Europe enlargements).
If you go back 10 years, 2007, it wasn't a problem then. More than half of the 3 millions EU immigrants who live and work here arrive the last 10 years.

 

[oldgroaner]

cheap labour is mainly concentrated in the unskilled sector and can be largely linked to availability of workers coming from accession countries.
If you go back 10 years, 2007, it wasn't a problem then. More than half of the 3 millions EU immigrants who live and work here arrive the last 10 years.

Really? have you ever heard of Bradford?

 

[Woosh]

Really? have you ever heard of Bradford?

your argument illustrates the danger of reasoning by examples.
I've come to Bradford a few times when I lived in Edgbaston in the early 90s.

 

[oldgroaner]

your argument illustrates the danger of reasoning by examples.
I've come to Bradford a few times when I lived in Edgbaston in the early 90s.

On the contrary it shows the policy of imported labour goes a lot further back than the 1970, and began in the 1960's
Furthermore that had nothing to do with the EU, did it?

 

[oldtom]

Meanwhile, the electioneering continues.......

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1443632082324590

Tom

 

[Woosh]

On the contrary it shows the policy of imported labour goes a lot further back than the 1970, and began in the 1960's
Furthermore that had nothing to do with the EU, did it?

Cheap labour has always existed because there are usually vacancies in arduous or unsocial jobs. That's is a given. Until 2004, we have had anti-immigration issue against Asians.
The EU changes the landscape since (check the blue bars).
The anti-immigration issue is now moved to EU immigrants.
The situation is similar in France and Germany. I go there quite often.
The driver of my container this week comes from Romania. He said he earns 4 times more working here, delivering containers, than in his country. He works two weeks, goes home a week to see his family then comes back. I would say 4 out of 5 container lorry drivers that I meet are from outside the UK.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

you took the net contribution as a percentage of our budget. That does not reflect accurately the cumulative effect it has on the leavers.
You should consider to compare our contribution as a mortgage repayment on a timeshare purchase. When you get out, you may get a substantial bill from the management.
I can't see what I have got out of the EU myself.

So you don't buy anything from any EU suppliers, you don't think Woosh benefits from being an importer based on the deals negotiated by the power of the EU, that we as a single nation won't be able to match. You don''t think your customers benefit from the free market, and the fact they only have the money to buy luxury items like eBikes because the economy has developed whilst whilst we've been in the EU.

You also don't think the recent boom in eBikes is a direct result of the UK harmonising its law with the EU and thefore giving brands a consistent legal basis on what constitutes an eBike?

You've never flown into another EU state and understood that we get preferential access to flight times and gates because we're in the EU?

You don't think university towns around the UK are booming and getting serious amounts of cash from the EU students who come every year, and boost economy in these areas. You don't think when this slows down, it'll impact on the UK economy?

You don't think all the nurses / doctors from the EU propping up the NHS, have a positive impact?

The list is endless... literally endless, and you can't see one thing you got out of it?

You clearly have zero idea of the things that EU membership brings, the fact you don't think you've got anything from the EU, so you're going to get a shock when you loose all the things you didn't realise you had.

 

[Woosh]

So you don't buy anything from any EU suppliers, you don't think Woosh benefits from being an importer based on the deals negotiated by the power of the EU, that we as a single nation won't be able to match. You don''t think your customers benefit from the free market, and the fact they only have the money to buy luxury items like eBikes because the economy has developed whilst whilst we've been in the EU.

You also don't think the recent boom in eBikes is a direct result of the UK harmonising its law with the EU and thefore giving brands a consistent legal basis on what constitutes an eBike?

You've never flown into another EU state and understood that we get preferential access to flight times and gates because we're in the EU?

You don't think university towns around the UK are booming and getting serious amounts of cash from the EU students who come every year, and boost economy in these areas. You don't think when this slows down, it'll impact on the UK economy?

You don't think all the nurses / doctors from the EU propping up the NHS, have a positive impact?

The list is endless... literally endless, and you can't see one thing you got out of it?

You clearly have zero idea of the things that EU membership brings, the fact you don't think you've got anything from the EU, so you're going to get a shock when you loose all the things you didn't realise you had.

You are speculating. Brexit has not happened yet.
There is no way at the moment to say that the economic situation is going to change drastically after we are out.
The only proposed red lines that we know of are: controlled EU immigration and no participation in the ECJ.