Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

"EN471 Class 2 – Intermediate visibility level is required for any person working on or near A and B class roads.
Garments intended for users who need greater visibility in poor weather conditions and whose activities occur near roadways where traffic speeds exceed 25 mph."

The French ladies wear them too.!!!

And the plaque by side of road clearly states paid for by EU grants..perhaps claimed illegally but none the less from EU.
And yes its in Catalonia.

All very interesting, but what is your point? look around in this country and see how people wear hard hats and hi vis gear, and safety boots even to walk onto a building site as a visitor.

Presumably the same EU directive applies here?

I believe it's called "Health and Safety" have you heard of it?
Is it something you don't approve of?
Don't worry after Brexit there will be the same care for the health and safety of the worker there was when I started in 1959
None at all, it gets in the way of Profit, and solves any problems over Pensions,as back then where I worked few of the Workers lived long enough to draw their pensions, the Foundry Sand, poisonous Fumes, Asbestos from Boiler Construction and Silicosis from the Pottery made sure of that.

 

[oldgroaner]

From the Guardian
"
Biggest Brexit donor urges May to guarantee rights of EU nationals
Senior Leave backers express concern over approach to immigration and say students should be free to come to UK
Peter Hargreaves, the billionaire who donated £3.2m to the Leave.EU campaign, said that the prime minister should reassure the three million EU nationals already in the UK that their current rights would be maintained.

Hargreaves, who is now retired after founding the Hargreaves Lansdown financial services company, said he understood the reluctance to guarantee the rights of EU nationals before the delicate negotiations over Brexit. However, he said, May should simply “make the gesture” and not wait until Brussels agreed to do the same for UK nationals living in EU states..

It looks like there is growing dissent at May's rather arbitrary idea of how to negotiate a deal among her paymasters.
Note that there is "liberty being taken with the truth"
"Senior Leave backers ?" hang on isn't it the case that this is just ONE of them?

 

[Wicky]

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/which-eu-law-are-you-looking-forward-to-losing/

Seems 'Zlatan' has done extensive and in depth research and is adding fluorescent safety clothing to bent bananas in order to free Britain from the bureaucratic red tape of the EU.

PS I'm sure he meant to write EN ISO 20471:2013 ;-)

 

[Woosh]

All very interesting, but what is your point?

there may be a point that remainers on this forum demand a high standard of proof from brexiters and not vice versa.

 

[oldgroaner]

there may be a point that remainers on this forum demand a high standard of proof from brexiters and not vice versa.

How can Brexit fans "Prove" anything? it is after all nothing more than a wager, so it's hard to insist on them providing proof, so far I can't recall a single convincing case where that was successfully achieved.

As to providing proof of the actions of the EU, it's there for anyone to consult if they can be bothered
Have you anything particular in mind?

 

[oldgroaner]

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/which-eu-law-are-you-looking-forward-to-losing/

Seems 'Zlatan' has done extensive and in depth research and is adding fluorescent safety clothing to bent bananas in order to free Britain from the bureaucratic red tape of the EU.

PS I'm sure he meant to write EN ISO 20471:2013 ;-)

Which law are you looking forward to was a classic, wan't it?
As to Ztalan, i think we should offer some help
He is a fan of Euro myths you know......
Here's a link so he can pick some more to dazzle us with
http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/euromyths-a-z-index/

The one of "Free Movement" is particularly interesting
http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/getting-the-facts-straight-eu-rights-to-reside-in-another-member-state-eu-benefit-claimants-and-nhs-treatment-entitlement/

Here is a taster from that link
"
First, it is a myth that EU law gives all EU citizens an unconditional right to reside freely in the UK or another Member State. In reality, this right is subject to important restrictions.

Second, it is a myth that EU law means that EU migrants are automatically entitled to claim benefits in the UK or another Member State. In fact, EU rules require migrants to meet stringent requirements before they can be eligible either for means tested “social assistance” benefits like housing benefit and income support or for social security benefits like child benefit, invalidity benefit or contribution-based Jobseekers’ Allowance.

The third, linked, myth is that EU rules somehow encourage so-called benefit tourism. In fact, the rules are designed to prevent “benefit tourism”.

The arguments advanced in favour of Brexit are as watertight as a Colander and have the Structural integrity of a "Big Girl's Blouse" (Not that I disapprove of Big girl's Blouses if you know what I mean)

 

[Woosh]

How can Brexit fans "Prove" anything? it is after all nothing more than a wager, so it's hard to insist on them providing proof, so far I can't recall a single convincing case where that was successfully achieved.

As to providing proof of the actions of the EU, it's there for anyone to consult if they can be bothered
Have you anything particular in mind?

yes, I think we'll see in a few months how bl**dy difficult the EU can make leaving the club.
I reckon it's worse than leaving a timeshare scheme.

 

[oldgroaner]

yes, I think we'll see in a few months how bl**dy difficult the EU can make leaving the club.
I reckon it's worse than leaving a timeshare scheme.

Actually it couldn't be easier. All we have to do is wait after all, so where is the problem?
We can leave without paying a penny.
May is perfectly happy to do that , if you want it to be to our advantage you need to get someone else to negotiate for us.
She's the problem not the EU

 

[Zlatan]

OG/ Wicky
Seems irony is totally lost on you two.
If you cant see it in the fact that girls selling themselves at sides of new roads ,paid for by EU, are made to wear hi viz jackets for their safety.
Actually its way beyond irony its absolutely ridiculous.
What has EU done for region ? Wiped our poverty ? No. Improved infrastructure ? No.
Invested in industry / commerce? No. Brought new jobs ? No.
They,ve built new roads to nowhere and made girls wear Hi viz jackets because they are deemed working near roads.

 

[Wicky]

and surprised the Daily Torygraph missed this story to whip up an anti EU frenzy...

https://www.army.mil/article/137868/AFSBn_Germany_issues_European_Activity_Set_equipment_to_Combined_Resolve_III_troops/

 

[Woosh]

Actually it couldn't be easier. All we have to do is wait after all, so where is the problem?

there is little doubt that the EU will take us to the ECJ for their money.
They seem to bank on us that we don't have the stomach for a fight nor job losses.

 

[oldgroaner]

A prophesy for you.
The EU will tell us what they are prepared to offer
We will accept that offer and make it out to be a Victory against an aggressor.
Everything else if Hogwash

 

[Woosh]

I don't see the EU as an agressor, I see the EU is an institution like many you have seen: the UN, NATO etc. You give them some power and a credit card. They will justify their existence by extending the reach of their original premise and load to the credit card as much as they can.
That can go on until they reach a point that some member(s) will say enough is enough.
They then make exit as onerous to the member(s) as possible. They justify the attitude as 'we only want all you promised us' but the real reason is to defend their own existence or more precisely, to deter others.
My view is simple, you have to be prepared to fight for what is right. If you see that enough is enough, then stop giving them more power and money.

 

[oldgroaner]

there is little doubt that the EU will take us to the ECJ for their money.
They seem to bank on us that we don't have the stomach for a fight nor job losses.

You really have fallen for this Propaganda haven't you? on the one hand the press are saying "Even the EU lawyers agree they can't make us pay"
And here you are saying that the EU will take us to the ECJ for their money.

This is getting dafter by the minute, for instance, may I point out that you don't do your case any good by referring to this alleged "Divorce Bill" as "their money?"
And legal disputes do not rely on "Having the stomach for a fight and job losses"

Why do you want either? who in their right mind want job losses and an unnecessary fight?
It is this intransigent attitude that has brought us to the ridiculous situation we are in today where jingoism is the order of the day and rational thought and debate has gone out of the window.
The EU will make us an offer, we have none to make them that can compare with what we already have, it's as simple as that.
Take it or leave it, the end result will be the same.
Disaster.

 

[oldgroaner]

I don't see the EU as an agressor, I see the EU is an institution like many you have seen: the UN, NATO etc. You give them some power and a credit card. They will justify their existence by extending the reach of their original premise and load to the credit card as much as they can.
That can go on until they reach a point that some member(s) will say enough is enough.
They then make exit as onerous to the member(s) as possible.

Only a small percentage of the population of this country wanted out, an inconvenient fact, but a fact nevetheless, and if you think that you will get a better deal under a Tory Government, then you believe in Father Christmas.
For the record "What is right" is not Little England, but European unity

 

[oldgroaner]

and surprised the Daily Torygraph missed this story to whip up an anti EU frenzy...

https://www.army.mil/article/137868/AFSBn_Germany_issues_European_Activity_Set_equipment_to_Combined_Resolve_III_troops/

Too busy BS ing the Election ?

 

[Woosh]

You really have fallen for this Propaganda haven't you? on the one hand the press are saying "Even the EU lawyers agree they can't make us pay"
And here you are saying that the EU will take us to the ECJ for their money.

Please stop insinuating that I get my cues from the tories press. I never bought a copy of theirs in my life.

 

[oldgroaner]

Please stop insinuating that I get my cues from the tories press. I never bought a copy of theirs in my life.

Neither have I, it's all free on the net, and where are you getting your info from then?

 

[oldtom]

and surprised the Daily Torygraph missed this story to whip up an anti EU frenzy...

https://www.army.mil/article/137868/AFSBn_Germany_issues_European_Activity_Set_equipment_to_Combined_Resolve_III_troops/

That story is two and a half years old Wicky??

Tom

 

[Wicky]

Zlatan's original dayglo EU 'scoop' is even more decrepit and originally from 2010...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/8086050/Spanish-prostitutes-ordered-to-wear-reflective-vests-for-their-own-safety.html