Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

I think the estimate for a hit on GDP if we fall back to WTO is a 2% drop in GDP that will eventually be recovered in a few years (less than 10).
Sticking up two fingers to the EU is priceless.

Why? what on Earth has prompted that sort of comment you hear in a playground?
So we pull out of a favourable deal that we have enjoyed for a generation on the word of a pack of liars hell bent on screwing the public for all they are worth, and the benefit that results comes down to this?

On the Debit side
We endanger the Economy for a Bet
Lower the living standards of the nation,
damage the environment,
take away many of the rights citizens have enjoyed and make them wage slaves
Give all power to a bunch of politicans that make Al Capone look like a pubic benefactor.
Watch Europe change into a United States of Europe which we could have been part of and guided and now can only watch.

On the Credit Side
We can make a lewd gesture at former friends like an imbecile?
While losing money on the deal
And you regard that as priceless?
The word is WORTHLESS

 

[flecc]

I think the estimate for a hit on GDP if we fall back to WTO is a 2% drop in GDP that will eventually be recovered in a few years (less than 10).

Possible, but that will fail if we lose that manufacturing I mentioned.

The reason that could happen is not to do with WTO tariff levels, it's the effect their presence has on investment decisions. It's when a company is making a decision on expansion or factory building that the presence of tariffs is likely to bring a decision to be within the EU's low cost areas instead.

And over the next few years there will be many such decisions to be made by companies.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

It looks as though Negotiations between ourselves and the EU are being "Hacked" by the media with items like this from Reuters, note the parts I have italicised.
"

German government officials have proposed giving Britain access to the European Union's single market in return for a fee, Focus magazine said on Saturday citing a Finance Ministry report.

The 35-page report on the potential costs of Brexit to Germany said Britain's departure from the EU risked "serious economic and stability relevant consequences; effects in particular on the real economy."

The ministry officials calculated Berlin would have to pay an additional 4.5 billion euros ($5 billion) a year into EU coffers as a result of Britain's departure from the bloc.

To mitigate the cost, they floated the idea of charging Britain for access to the single market.

"Such a future financial contribution should be used to alleviate the financial consequences of Brexit (reduction in EU spending or increase in payments for other member states)," Focus quoted the officials as saying.

A Finance Ministry spokesman declined to comment on the Focus report when contacted by Reuters.

Brexit would also put additional strain on German tax and customs officials as there would be new tax liabilities for products and services bought from British companies, the report said. ($1 = 0.9096 euros)

Sounding out the opposition,or an attempt to muddy or poison the waters?
Fake news or the real thing, and by whom, for what reason?

We can expect a lot more of this "Vapourware News"

I would just like to point out that 4 Billion Euros per year extra is actually Chicken feed to the German Economy

 

[oldgroaner]

Outdated perhaps but they did forecast a Snap election, this from Nomura
http://nomuraconnects.com/our-insight/geopolitical-uncertainty/what-should-you-watch-out-for-after-the-uk-triggers-article-50/?utm_source=Dianomi&utm_medium=Agreedtitles&utm_campaign=UK&utm_content=Text&Image_4ThingsBrexit

 

[flecc]

It looks as though Negotiations between ourselves and the EU are being "Hacked" by the media with items like this from Reuters, note the parts I have italicised.
"

German government officials have proposed giving Britain access to the European Union's single market in return for a fee, Focus magazine said on Saturday citing a Finance Ministry report.

The 35-page report on the potential costs of Brexit to Germany said Britain's departure from the EU risked "serious economic and stability relevant consequences; effects in particular on the real economy."

The ministry officials calculated Berlin would have to pay an additional 4.5 billion euros ($5 billion) a year into EU coffers as a result of Britain's departure from the bloc.

To mitigate the cost, they floated the idea of charging Britain for access to the single market.

"Such a future financial contribution should be used to alleviate the financial consequences of Brexit (reduction in EU spending or increase in payments for other member states)," Focus quoted the officials as saying.

A Finance Ministry spokesman declined to comment on the Focus report when contacted by Reuters.

Brexit would also put additional strain on German tax and customs officials as there would be new tax liabilities for products and services bought from British companies, the report said. ($1 = 0.9096 euros)

Sounding out the opposition,or an attempt to muddy or poison the waters?
Fake news or the real thing, and by whom, for what reason?

We can expect a lot more of this "Vapourware News"

I would just like to point out that 4 Billion Euros per year extra is actually Chicken feed to the German Economy

Definitely fake news. Long ago early in the post Brexit period, the German government said they could accept the loss of all the UK's business. In fact they've already proved that, since the global reduction they suffered in the 2008 recession was greater than the whole of the UK's annual business with them, and they shrugged off that recession loss with ease.
.

 

[Woosh]

OG, the 100 billion bill is widely reported in the press, not just the tories rags, but also all the broadsheets like the independent.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-news-divorce-bill-100bn-eu27-demands-contributions-a7714436.html
I don't think it is vapourware. It follows demands from the French and Germans for the UK to pay farm subsidies well after our leaving date.

 

[oldgroaner]

OG, the 100 billion bill is widely reported in the press, not just the tories rags, but also all the broadsheets like the independent.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-news-divorce-bill-100bn-eu27-demands-contributions-a7714436.html
I don't think it is vapourware. It follows demands from the French and Germans for the UK to pay farm subsidies well after our leaving date.

Have to stopped reading my comments? I pointed out in #15099 that the source was the FT and they have all been quoting that.

 

[oldgroaner]

I don't think we want any of the benefits.
We want out and a deal on trade that will be of mutual benefit.
The more I think about it, the more I think we should just walk away and look for business elsewhere.

speak for yourself! you certainly don't for me. I really don't want any of the disadvantages this Brexit fantasy will drop in my lap

 

[Danidl]

When I split up with the Ex Wife she told me she would make it as difficult as
possible for me (Kids,CSA.etc) Does anybody think this made me want to go
back to her ?

. Don't know about your personal situation, but the story with the EU is different. They said if you really want to go, and we don't want you to go, well we will change the front door key, and there will be no more home comforts, or cookies and by the way we expect you to pay for the new car you bought on the hp and to make a contribution for the swimming pool you were installing.

 

[Zlatan]

. Don't know about your personal situation, but the story with the EU is different. They said if you really want to go, and we don't want you to go, well we will change the front door key, and there will be no more home comforts, or cookies and by the way we expect you to pay for the new car you bought on the hp and to make a contribution for the swimming pool you were installing.

A swimming pool we couldn't use...just like the EU paid for roads in Northern Spain...that nobody uses...just like EU many go nowhere..

 

[Woosh]

Have to stopped reading my comments? I pointed out in #15099 that the source was the FT and they have all been quoting that.

I did read the FT article a few days ago. At first, I did not take it seriously because it was their own figures. It's only when the story has spread to all the main media and then I watched the expression of Mr Juncker when he was asked a direct question about it that I came to the conclusion that the EU wanted to take us to the cleaners.

 

[oldgroaner]

A swimming pool we couldn't use...just like the EU paid for roads in Northern Spain...that nobody uses...just like EU many go nowhere..

perhaps you should think more on the question of how you are going to get the Tory Government to fix the millions of potholes here rather than witter on about your pet EU hates.
They at least tried to fix things, the Tory party wont do that will they?

And you really should read the postings, as it referred to a "Swimming pool WE were installing"
But you missed that and tried to make out it had been imposed on us.

 

[oldgroaner]

I did read the FT article a few days ago. At first, I did not take it seriously because it was their own figures. It's only when the story has spread to all the main media and then I watched the expression of Mr Juncker when he was asked a direct question about it that I came to the conclusion that the EU wanted to take us to the cleaners.

So the propaganda worked on you as it was intended to.
After all why would Juncker not confirm it if it was true? when he knows whatever he said it would be twisted any way?
What was in it for him?

 

[Zlatan]

perhaps you should think more on the question of how you are going to get the Tory Government to fix the millions of potholes here rather than witter on about your pet EU hates.
They at least tried to fix things, the Tory party wont do that will they?

And you really should read the postings, as it referred to a "Swimming pool WE were installing"
But you missed that and tried to make out it had been imposed on us.

Too right they fixed the damn things..with nice brand new roads with our money...why didn't they renew ours or at least roads that were actually used.
In Northern Spain there is a lovely little village called Lorent de la Muga..population around 3000..Veen going there for nearly 40 years now. About 10 years ago they renewed the whole road( From Girona)..widened, occasional dual carriage way, even a nice wide pavement. I decided to follow road through village to see where it went...about 5 miles out of village it stops.. Literally. I,d guess perhaps 40 cars a day use road...all EU grants ..There is even a plaque extolling the virtue of EU under its regeneration scheme, well there was until somebody used it for target practice whilst out hunting wild boar...( some of those in Hull I,ve heard).The old road was twice as big as needed. Same story loads of places in Northern Spain..was intended to promote areas and bring in tourism. It hasn't. Its lined pockets of contractors..villages are just as quiet, no more work, high youth unemployment..lots of crime...complete waste of money.Thats the EU at work. High ideals, right motives...but in end useless..unless you build roads for a living.
But back in Hull you can read and believe all the hype about how great EU is...reality is different.

This is another true story from region. Under EU law anybody working within 5 metres of these new roads has to wear high viz jackets..Fair enough...but now the girls selling them selves ( legally) sit on white plastic chairs at side of busy roads ( not the one mentioned) in high viz jackets. Honestly. It happens. That's the EU for you. Crazy.
Oh no don't get rid of poverty by investment in industry or commerce, no build roads and make folk wear high viz jackets. You couldn't write it.

 

[oldgroaner]

Too right they fixed the damn things..with nice brand new roads with our money...why didn't they renew ours or at least roads that were actually used.
In Northern Spain there is a lovely little village called Lorent de la Muga..population around 3000..Veen going there for nearly 40 years now. About 10 years ago they renewed the whole road...widened, occasional dual carriage way. I decided to follow road through village to see where it went...about 5 miles out of village it stops.. Literally. I,d guess perhaps 40 cars a day use road...all EU grants ...the old one was twice as big as needed. Same story loads of places Northern Spain..was intended to promote areas and bring in tourism. It hasn't. Its lined pockets of contractors..villages are just as quiet, no more work, high youth unemployment..lots of crime...complete waste of money.Thats the EU at work. High ideals, right motives...but in end useless..unless you build roads for a living.
But back in Hull you can read and believe all the hype about how great EU is...reality is different.

Yes reality is very different and I really do't understand why you go on about trifles when there is a huge problem with roads in this country to deal with.
This from the Daily Express
"
POTHOLE MADNESS: Councils would need 14 YEARS to repair all holes in Britain's roads
IT would take councils a staggering 14 years to repair all the potholes in Britain's roads, a survey has revealed.
The Local Government Agency, which represents 370 councils in England and Wales, warned that it would now cost £12bn pounds to complete the much-needed repairs on British roads.

The LGA is calling for the Government to inject a further billion pounds a year into road maintenance.

So what the heck are you wittering on about a local small scale issue in Spain For?
We have infinitely worse problems here and NO ONE is going to FIX them especially now we are leaving the EU
Have you GOT THAT YET?

No one gives a damn about this trifling rant of yours against the EU
our Home Grown Problems are all that matter now, so give up on this fetish you have and think about the mess you have got us into here .

Do you imagine after Brexit the roads will be magically fixed and everything will be sunshine and roses?
Your so called reality is actually utter nonsense.

 

[wheeler]

This is another true story from region. Under EU law anybody working within 5 metres of these new roads has to wear high viz jackets.

If that is an EU law, why doesn't it apply to all member states, it certainly doesn't apply in UK?

Maybe you could supply the relevant EU Directive number.

wheeler

 

[anotherkiwi]

If that is an EU law, why doesn't it apply to all member states, it certainly doesn't apply in UK?

Maybe you could supply the relevant EU Directive number.

wheeler

Because it is a Spanish law of course...

That would be Catalonia, not Spain and the people responsible for those roads are being prosecuted in a huge corruption trial.

I know all these things because I watch the Spanish news every day just in case you wondered...

 

[oldgroaner]

Because it is a Spanish law of course...

That would be Catalonia, not Spain and the people responsible for those roads are being prosecuted in a huge corruption trial.

I know all these things because I watch the Spanish news every day just in case you wondered...

Another local issue being blamed on the EU it would seem, thanks for the insight.
I'm surprised no one has blamed the EU for our potholes!

 

[oldgroaner]

From the Express
"
Call their bluff' May urged to demand tribunal over EU Brexit bill
THERESA May has been urged to “call the bluff” of European Union leaders and demand an independent tribunal examine the legality of their demands for the UK to pay a €100bn Brexit divorce bill."

Just one quesion, where is this mythical Bill? it hasn't actually been presented has it? all of this is flying on the back of a rumour intended to drum up support for May in the coming election, and began when the FT started the rumour based on it's own calculations

Propaganda has completely replaced truth in this country and they can't even get that right.

The Express can't even get it's Propaganda to consistantly agree, on the SAME PAGE is this!
"
Busted! EU lawyers 'admit Brussels’ £85million Brexit bill LEGALLY IMPOSSIBLE to enforce'
THE EU’s delusional £85million (€100billion) Brexit bill has been branded as “legally impossible to enforce” by the European Commission’s OWN lawyers, according to reports."

Which is it? £85 Million or €100 Billion? why not make it £200 Billion? the readers will believe it because that is what they want to read.

Bit of an editorial Blunder there to confuse Million with Billion, but this is the Express after all

Perhaps one should add the caveat "according to reports" to these editorials meaning of course this is just Propaganda and Fake News

 

[Zlatan]

"EN471 Class 2 – Intermediate visibility level is required for any person working on or near A and B class roads.
Garments intended for users who need greater visibility in poor weather conditions and whose activities occur near roadways where traffic speeds exceed 25 mph."

The French ladies wear them too.!!!

And the plaque by side of road clearly states paid for by EU grants..perhaps claimed illegally but none the less from EU.
And yes its in Catalonia.