Brexit, for once some facts.

[Woosh]

I believe there is a faction within the EU that wants a binary choice, the only alternative to brexit is no brexit. They mean either a hard brexit or no brexit.
It will take us many years to sort out alternative trades to replace a reduction in EU trade but we must not give in to blackmail.
I wish the EU will see that hard brexit is a failure for the EU too.
A reduction in UK-EU trade is not good for anyone, especially for the EU's coffers.

 

[oldgroaner]

I believe there is a faction within the EU that wants a binary choice, the only alternative to brexit is no brexit. They mean either a hard brexit or no brexit.
It will take us many years to sort out alternative trades to replace a reduction in EU trade but we must not give in to blackmail.
I wish the EU will see that hard brexit is a failure for the EU too.
A reduction in UK-EU trade is not good for anyone, especially for the EU's coffers.

We are giving way to Blackmail by having Brexit on the basis of a Non Legal referendum.
Making us pay our incurred debts is now "Blackmail?"
I hope you don't take that attitude to the bills that you get for things you have agreed to in the past and entered into contracts for.
And the faction wanting a hard Brexit is also known as the Tory Government, and you really have avoided answering ny questions , by using diversionary tactics haven't you?
Do any of you really imagine for a single moment that the Government want to accept responsibility if there is a failure to gain a good deal and won't automatically blame the EU

Come on now, put your money where your mouth is
Deny that statement is the truth
And this too
the poor and those struggling to survive will suffer, but the rich won't will they?
Or are you going to say that won't happen?

 

[Woosh]

I don't think we refuse to pay incurred debts, the so called 'comptes a rendre'. The EU wants to add to that programs that the UK is supposed to have agreed to. They are promises made on the basis of our continuation to being a member. For the UK to pay and have no say, I think it is not going to be acceptable. Furthermore, the EU's officials refuse to say whether the UK can offset the liabilities with our share of EU assets.
Similarly, the EU wants to extend the rights of EU immigrants to their relatives and those rights to be guaranteed by the ECJ. As those relatives become UK residents, you can easily see the scope for the ECJ extend even further.
Adding these things together, I don't see any prospect for agreement.

 

[flecc]

It will take us many years to sort out alternative trades to replace a reduction in EU trade but we must not give in to blackmail.

The EU refusing to give in to the UK's unreasonable demands isn't blackmail. For decades the blackmailing UK has been demanding special terms and renegotiations, and at some time a deadline would inevitably be reached. That came with David Cameron's attempt at yet another renegotiation, when the other EU countries wisely decided it was time to call a halt, no more concessions.

So that's the self-deserved start point for the departure negotiations, no concessions. Then, since the other 27 don't see why they should bear a cost for the UK to leave, they demand we pay for the costs of our departure.

In the circumstances, all entirely reasonable.

I wish the EU will see that hard brexit is a failure for the EU too.
A reduction in UK-EU trade is not good for anyone, especially for the EU's coffers.

They do see that, it's why so many, including Junckers, are saying Brexit is a tragedy for both parties. It's the UK that's being both unrealistic and stupid, yet again.
.

 

[Zlatan]

Wonder if Junkers speeches will make more sense when he makes them.in French..Think his statement sums up his petty attitude.Like anybody cares what language that thieving toad speaks in.

 

[Woosh]

The EU refusing to give in to the UK's unreasonable demands isn't blackmail. For decades the blackmailing UK has been demanding special terms and renegotiations, and at some time a deadline would inevitably be reached. That came with David Cameron's attempt at yet another renegotiation, when the other EU countries wisely decided it was time to call a halt, no more concessions.

So that's the self-deserved start point for the departure negotiations, no concessions. Then, since the other 27 don't see why they should bear a cost for the UK to leave, they demand we pay for the costs of our departure.

In the circumstances, all entirely reasonable.



They do see that, it's why so many, including Junckers, are saying Brexit is a tragedy for both parties. It's the UK that's being both unrealistic and stupid, yet again.
.

I don't see the UK's position as stupid and unrealistic.
Membership has a cost.
On balance, the cost of staying outweighs the benefits.
The EU's top echelons are totally convinced that political union is a must have that 17 million people have said no to.
We will soon be faced with a choice, to capitulate to EU demands or to walk away.
I think I know what it will be if a second referendum is called.

 

[oldtom]

As a result of decades of brainwashing through the tory party propaganda machine, the result has been achieved. This is the outcome:



Tom

 

[D8ve]

Membership has a cost, yes but it also has benefits.
No European war in seventy years would be nice. Being part of a club that stopped us being bullied is nice. Having free travel throughout Europe with all the local benefits was nice. Having a damper on local political idiots was nice. Human rights were nice. Big support when local issues happened was nice.
Remember how bad it is to live in Europe, the Germans have a great economy and can get to all the resorts we can, the French can retire at 60 and enjoy local bread cheese and plonk. The Dutch have a good life too.
It's obviously far better in toxteth and Scunthorpe.

 

[oldgroaner]

On balance, the cost of staying outweighs the benefits.

You couldn't be more wrong if you tried, as events will subsequently prove we are heading into deep trouble

 

[oldgroaner]

The EU's top echelons are totally convinced that political union is a must have that 17 million people have said no to.

And virtually the same number said yes and been utterly and completely ignored and treated as if they don't exist.

They do exist, and when the proverbial hits the fan under Tory rule, will remember what happened to their future, and their numbers will swell.

They are not pleased now, imagine their mood then, and add the numbers expecting Nirvana from Brexit and finding it all turn to garbage.

Take heed.
You really really shouldn't ignore so large a section of the population that feel their future has been bought and sold for someone elses profit.

 

[flecc]

The EU's top echelons are totally convinced that political union is a must have

And they are right. The population at large have diverse aspirations, demonstrably often not in their own best interests. It can take a wider, more educated and carefully considered view of all the factors to know what is best for the future.

And a world of one common people is that best, so every and any step towards it is desirable.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

And they are right. The population at large have diverse aspirations, demonstrably often not in their own best interests. It can take a wider, more educated and carefully considered view of all the factors to know what is best for the future.

And a world of one common people is that best, so every and any step towards it is desirable.
.

It is the only possible future that will free humanity from war and hunger

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[Woosh]

It is the only possible future that will free humanity from war and hunger

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

Are you saying that only the EU can offer the remedy and no UK government can?
May I put it to you that a lot of Labour voters much prefer voting for Mrs May on account of her position on brexit.
Try at least to understand them.

 

[oldgroaner]

Are you saying that only the EU can offer the remedy and no UK government can?
May I put it to you that a lot of Labour voters much prefer voting for Mrs May on account of her position on brexit.
Try at least to understand them.

I do they are mistaken

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[flecc]

Are you saying that only the EU can offer the remedy and no UK government can?

The record on human rights rulings and statements shows the answer to be yes. It's the EU and never the UK government that acts in the best interests of the masses.

May I put it to you that a lot of Labour voters much prefer voting for Mrs May on account of her position on brexit.
Try at least to understand them.

I understand their foolishness.
.

 

[tillson]

Membership has a cost, yes but it also has benefits.
No European war in seventy years would be nice. Being part of a club that stopped us being bullied is nice. Having free travel throughout Europe with all the local benefits was nice. Having a damper on local political idiots was nice. Human rights were nice. Big support when local issues happened was nice.
Remember how bad it is to live in Europe, the Germans have a great economy and can get to all the resorts we can, the French can retire at 60 and enjoy local bread cheese and plonk. The Dutch have a good life too.
It's obviously far better in toxteth and Scunthorpe.

All of the things you mention above are good. I have no argument with that, particularly the age of retirement in France. However, the UK's retirement age has gone the other way. It was 60 for women and 65 for men, now that's 65, 66, 67 ..... and increasing. All this has happened since we have been members of the EU.

 

[flecc]

All of the things you mention above are good. I have no argument with that, particularly the age of retirement in France. However, the UK's retirement age has gone the other way. It was 60 for women and 65 for men, now that's 65, 66, 67 ..... and increasing. All this has happened since we have been members of the EU.

But not because of the EU, solely due to UK governments rulings, further illustrating my point above that our government takes less care of us than the EU.
.

 

[oldtom]

A general election result which further strengthens the hand of this class warrior Prime Minister will open the door to the tories' last great challenge, the abolition of the NHS as we have known it.

The deliberate underfunding and the ongoing closures of NHS real estate will ultimately bring about health care based on the American system.


Tom

 

[daveboy]

When I split up with the Ex Wife she told me she would make it as difficult as
possible for me (Kids,CSA.etc) Does anybody think this made me want to go
back to her ?

 

[flecc]

When I split up with the Ex Wife she told me she would make it as difficult as
possible for me (Kids,CSA.etc) Does anybody think this made me want to go
back to her ?

That's not the EU's intentions with their warnings though since they know we are leaving, so it's a different case. The EU's purpose is to get some realism into the UK's starting position on the leave negotiations. That will save time, so is in our interests since we want a quick settlement.

In truth they are trying to help us, they aren't at war with us or threatening or blackmailing us. That is all just media and tory party spin to pretend any poor outcome will be the fault of the wicked EU.

I grew out of Big Bad Wolf scare stories when I was still a small child, sadly it seems some adults have still to achieve that.
.