Brexit, for once some facts.

[Zlatan]

OG
You cant blame right wing press for Corbyn's ridiculous policies, Abbots stupid comments or for Blairs lies and starting a war..
They are reasons labour are losing voters.
Even without right wing press we,d still have all three flushing labour down toilet.

Any Labour voter nowadays has to chose between supporting Corbyn or being a Blairite ,,waiting in wings for his resurrection. What a choice...I,ve always voted Labour...cant now. What about you? You said yourself Lib Dem get yours ? Has right wing press affected your choice ? I don't think so.

 

[oldtom]

The web blogger AAV notes this from the poll results:



Exactly!

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

OG
You cant blame right wing press for Corbyn's ridiculous policies, Abbots stupid comments or for Blairs lies and starting a war..
They are reasons labour are losing voters.
Even without right wing press we,d still have all three flushing labour down toilet.

Any Labour voter nowadays has to chose between supporting Corbyn or being a Blairite ,,waiting in wings for his resurrection. What a choice...I,ve always voted Labour...cant now. What about you? You said yourself Lib Dem get yours ? Has right wing press affected your choice ? I don't think so.

Lib dems it is, and no the right wing press hasn't affected my vote, but it certainly has affected a huge number of voters
I have never voted for new labour as I always regarded them as conservative

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[flecc]

I don't think either Corbyn or the right wing press are the main factors in the impending election result.

A very large factor is that the traditional Labour areas seem to have favoured a hard Brexit and many are likely to switch to voting for Theresa May as a result.

Add to that the clear reversion of voters from UKIP back to Tory that Old Tom has observed above, and you have the expected Tory result.

And of course the triumph of the SNP long ago cost Labour its former Scottish heartland, even back then making a general election win for them almost impossible, even without Corbyn.
.

 

[Woosh]

Corbyn's big mistake was to make John McDonnell his Chancellor, Diane Abbott his Home Secretary.
They are useless speakers in these important posts.
He should have given these key jobs to other people like Chuka Umunna and Hilary Benn but he surrounds himself with lightweights. Insecurity perhaps?

 

[Woosh]

Mock the week explains brexit:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=514786488645007

 

[oldgroaner]

A very large factor is that the traditional Labour areas seem to have favoured a hard Brexit and many are likely to switch to voting for Theresa May as a result.

You have to wonder just what they imagine they are going to gain from either decision other than making their own situation far, far worse.
Will they be satisfied when they achieve that?

 

[Woosh]

You have to wonder just what they imagine they are going to gain from either decision

They may be poorer compared to the average but they don't want help when it's covered with the blue EU flag. Take that flag away, they may not vote for brexit.

 

[oldgroaner]

They may be poorer compared to the average but they don't want help when it's covered with the blue EU flag. Take that flag away, they may not vote for brexit.

Sorry but I don't follow your logic, that flag never bothered them for over 40 years, did it?

 

[Woosh]

the flag says 'you have been ripped off' - the money that goes into regional development is our money, their region's money, our money even pays for the EU flag. Same with the banks. The EU is a huge ponzi scheme. They pay dividend to you with your own money. They make it so that you can't leave the scheme.
You may not see it that way but I suspect a lot of people feel it that way.

 

[oldgroaner]

the flag says 'you have been ripped off' - the money that goes into regional development is our money, their region's money, our money even pays for the EU flag. Same with the banks. The EU is a huge ponzi scheme. They pay dividend to you with your own money. They make it so that you can't leave the scheme.
You may not see it that way but I suspect a lot of people feel it that way.

If they do then they are making a very big mistake indeed as this Government would never put a single penny into any of the schemes the EU has financed in this way.

And they never will, ever again. This is another case where the Public have been gravely misled by the right wing media.
Rather proving my point that continuous Propaganda has a poisonous effect when used to cover up the failings of central Government.

Does anyone really believe that this set of Tory rip off artists will invest in anything that improves the lives of the people and the environment?
REALLY?
If that is the level on cognisance among the Public then they deserve the Government they are going to get.

I do hope that you don't personally subscribe to such a nonsensical viewpoint.
The country is heading at speed into a dead end.

Here's a new slogan for you
"Vote Tory and your Country will be bought and sold for Foreign Gold,and you'll be left with Nothing."

 

[oldgroaner]

May gets wierder by the Day, now this!
"
Failure in Brexit negotiations could risk Britons' "economic security and prosperity," Theresa May has admitted.

If talks do not go the UK's way "we risk the secure and well-paid jobs we want for our children and our children’s children," the Prime Minister conceded in a speech outside Downing Street.

In the same address she launched a fierce attack on EU politicians, accusing them of meddling in the UK general election and trying to wreck Brexit.
Ms May said: "Making Brexit a success is central to our national interest. And it is central to your own security and prosperity."

What happened to no Deal is better than a Bad Deal?
Truly this Brexit nonsense will prove very damaging indeed, especially with this woman at the helm, she changes her story on a daily basis.

Anyone with even half an operational brain should question the very idea that the Government that presided over the rise of Zero hour contracts and virtually banned strikes, give even the slightest damn about workers having secure and well paid jobs.
Such a thing is entirely against the basic principles of Tory economics.
They inted that British workers will be little more than gullible serfs.

 

[Woosh]

You have to ask yourself why and who leaked the news that the EU is seeking 100 billions from us for divorce.
That can only justifies why 17 millions voted for brexit, to get out before it gets worse.

 

[oldgroaner]

You have to ask yourself why and who leaked the news that the EU is seeking 100 billions from us for divorce.
That can only justifies why 17 millions voted for brexit, to get out before it gets worse.

Does it really? How true is it, and why will it get worse, when with the rebates we had we pay less into the EU than Italy?
We are being led by the nose with yet more lies once again
And what is this divorce nonsense? We have never been married to the EU, just members, another case of propaganda skewing the facts of course.
We have made financial commitments that the EU want settled, we should pay them and stop lying to make out we are being punished.
We are acting, as a nation like some outraged young maiden that has been violated over a debt we owe.
And all to drum up support for a poisonous regime that will abuse the right and future of the public
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[Woosh]

OG, you don't try very hard to see the point of leavers.
There are 17 millions that do not want more political and economic integration.
The EU can easily deny the rumour of demanding 100 billions and tone down the future involvement of the ECJ in British justice system.
On the contrary, Juncker and Barnier are happy to up the tension.
I can't see the UK paying more than 25 billions.
We'll walk away.

 

[oldgroaner]

OG, you don't try very hard to see the point of leavers.
There are 17 millions that do not want more political and economic integration.
The EU can easily deny the rumour of demanding 100 billions and tone down the future involvement of the ECJ in British justice system.
On the contrary, Juncker and Barnier are happy to up the tension.
I can't see the UK paying more than 25 billions.
We'll walk away.

Yes we will and the poor and those struggling to survive will suffer, but the rich won't will they?
Or are you going to say that won't happen?

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[Woosh]

No deal is better than giving in to 100 billion blackmail.
If this rumour of 100 billions had started before the referendum, I reckon a lot more would have voted to leave.

 

[oldgroaner]

No deal is better than giving in to 100 billion blackmail.
If this rumour of 100 billions had started before the referendum, I reckon a lot more would have voted to leave.

A great example of the power of FAKE NEWS!
"The European Commission had initially given a ballpark estimate of the bill of about €60 billion One senior but the FT said the calculations it referred to would result in a net payment from Britain of roughly that level, after subsequent reimbursements.EU official involved in preparing for the talks after a British election on June 8 said he did not recognize the 100-billion-euro figure, although a number of private calculations of the bill have gone as high or even higher.

No wonder the media (FT) have sparked this runour now! and using the FT makes it an all the more covincing one, doesn't it?
How very convenient for the Government........rather too convenient in fact.

So the source of this so called EU demand was in fact the FT!
What a fine piece of Electioneering and Propaganda to keep the Gullible Public on side, and you fell for it, Hook line and sinker, didn't you?

Words like "Blackmail!" are exactly what your worst enemies want you to use!
But to be honest nothing that is being said will stop Brexit turning into a disaster for this country.
Carry on by all means, scream hysterically , that's what the Media want you to do rather than think.

It really doesn't matter, it's far too late in the day to avert disaster, and we all know that, don't we?
The Torys will make fools of all 65 Millions of us, and at our expense too!
Are any of you brave enough to prophesy that they will make Britain richer and stronger and the lower levels of society better off, and make all Brexit promises come true?

Sorry I'm laughing at that idea.

 

[Woosh]

Juncker and Barnier could have denied it, but they don't. I watched Mr Juncker being asked a direct question about the 100 billions on TV, he chose not to answer.
There seems to be a faction at the EU wanting the UK to leave without a deal because any deal in their eye may be interpreted that the UK has cake and eats it.

 

[oldgroaner]

Juncker and Barnier could have denied it, but they don't. I watched Mr Juncker being asked a direct question about the 100 billions on TV, he chose not to answer.
There seems to be a faction at the EU wanting the UK to leave without a deal because any deal in their eye may be interpreted that the UK has cake and eats it.

Is that all you have to go on? if it was true what was to stop him confirming it?
More likely he thought "Here's another bit of the UK's propaganda war at work" and ignoring it.
That is what I would do, treat such rumours with the contempt they deserve, and he did.

There seems to be a faction in the UK that attributes a hostile intent on the part of the EU where they want one to exist to further their agenda, don't fall for it.
The EU have no more to gain from no deal than we do, and they are not as STUPID as the Tory Politicians either.
Lets face it if they want us to leave with no deal, all they have to do is wait, TM and co will deliver that in due course, as that is clearly what they want.
The reality is that they want to blame the EU for "Forcing no deal on us" and avoid the blame.
Once again I pose the question
Do any of you really imagine for a single moment that the Government want to accept responsibility if there is a failure to gain a good deal and won't automatically blame the EU

Come on now, put your money where your mouth is
Deny that statement is the truth