Brexit, for once some facts.

[shemozzle999]

Regarding the Gibraltar clause, Spain can veto the agreement but it still has to pass article 218 requirements as stated in article 50:

b) By way of derogation from point (a), when the Council does not act on a proposal from the Commission or from the High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, the qualified majority shall be defined as at least 72% of the members of the Council (19.44 countries) representing Member States comprising at least 65% of the population of these States - pie chart link needs to be altered to exclude the UK for true percentage values.

https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/figures/living_en

 

[tillson]

After fruitlessly searching for some information about how UK border security will change after secession, I can only guess that this is what 'OxygenJames' has in mind when he pontificates about control of our borders:

View attachment 18466

In this snapshot, these uniformed guardians of our imperial nation and commonwealth stand ready to defend us against any invader while waiting for the autocue to roll over to the next line of the Churchill speech that includes:

We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender.

I'm sure we'll all sleep easier in our beds tonight!

Tom

Oh dear, I thought it was to good to last, Mr Cut & Paste has been activated again!

 

[oldtom]

This is going on down 'flecc's manor next Saturday. I am unable to confirm whether 'flecc' himself will be addressing the audience:




Tom

 

[oldtom]

Ok, A50 has been invoked and there is no point arguing the toss any longer about the pros and cons of 'Brexit'. I'm in complete agreement today with the web blogger, AAV, who believes the best course now is to get on with making a success out of the new dawn for the British people that 'Brexit' represents.

Here is his piece in full:

why-brexit-is-going-to-be-massive.html

Tom

 

[flecc]

This is going on down 'flecc's manor next Saturday. I am unable to confirm whether 'flecc' himself will be addressing the audience:

No, although I live on the southern country fringe of the Borough of Croydon, I try never to go into central Croydon, always bypass it.

Central Croydon is such a dump I dislike it intensely. Last time I needed to go there for a specific reason was Friday 2nd October 2009, showing how much I avoid it.
.

 

[gray198]

The EU is a giant protection racket along the lines of that other Italian organisation. It tries to keep payments coming in and control of people by a mixture of coercion threats and blackmail. The sooner we leave the better.

 

[tillson]

Ok, A50 has been invoked and there is no point arguing the toss any longer about the pros and cons of 'Brexit'. I'm in complete agreement today with the web blogger, AAV, who believes the best course now is to get on with making a success out of the new dawn for the British people that 'Brexit' represents.

Here is his piece in full:

why-brexit-is-going-to-be-massive.html

Tom

I am manifestly delighted to read that you have courageously embraced BREXIT and the associated richness which it will afford you in the coming years. Since the historic vote, you have been too melancholy for my liking and I am certain that the new dawn will furnish you with a bostin' good time. It'll be $h!t-hot youth, don't worry yourself.

 

[oldtom]

Tom

 

[flecc]

The EU is a giant protection racket along the lines of that other Italian organisation. It tries to keep payments coming in and control of people by a mixture of coercion threats and blackmail. The sooner we leave the better.

What a strange comparison? The EU fiercely protects citizens rights through law and courts to such a degree that it annoys abusive governments like our own. It protects the right of complete freedom of movement. It introduced bank deposit guarantees so our money in banks at levels that ordinary people might have is protected. It encourages member countries to rescue and take care of refugees fleeing war and persecution. It grants money to areas less fortunate than others in order to build them up to greater strength.

Everything about these activities is diametrically opposed to everything the Mafia stands for, making your comparison ludicrous.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

mmm... Pretty sure I do too, but it makes no difference really..Its an anonymous forum...sort of. Its a sad reflection on individuals who need duplicate IDs on a forum tho. ??? I suspect we all know who, its not that difficult to spot in sentence structure and style.

Well that must be a first, you usually can't make your mind up without arguing with yourself[emoji1]

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[oldgroaner]

What a strange comparison? The EU fiercely protects citizens rights through law and courts to such a degree that it annoys abusive governments like our own. It protects the right of complete freedom of movement. It introduced bank deposit guarantees so our money in banks at levels that ordinary people might have is protected. It encourages member countries to rescue and take care of refugees fleeing war and persecution. It grants money to areas less fortunate than others in order to build them up to greater strength.

Everything about these activities is diametrically opposed to everything the Mafia stands for, making your comparison ludicrous.
.

It is astonishing that anyone could hold such a distorted view of reality as he came out with, but if you rely on propaganda without bothering to check how factual it is, this is the result.
It is after all less effort for those inclined to be lazy to believe the lies they keep being fed than to actually make the effort to find out the truth.



Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[tillson]

It is astonishing that anyone could hold such a distorted view of reality as he came out with, but if you rely on propaganda without bothering to check how factual it is, this is the result.
It is after all less effort for those inclined to be lazy to believe the lies they keep being fed than to actually make the effort to find out the truth.



Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

When a person posts an opinion which is out of kilter with your own, is it possible for you to respond without:

Insult?

An insinuation that they are of low intelligence?

Suggesting that their personality is distorted?

Any other derogatory statement?

When someone has an opinion which is different to yours, that is all that it means. Their opinion is different to yours.

 

[gray198]

What a strange comparison? The EU fiercely protects citizens rights through law and courts to such a degree that it annoys abusive governments like our own. It protects the right of complete freedom of movement. It introduced bank deposit guarantees so our money in banks at levels that ordinary people might have is protected. It encourages member countries to rescue and take care of refugees fleeing war and persecution. It grants money to areas less fortunate than others in order to build them up to greater strength.

Everything about these activities is diametrically opposed to everything the Mafia stands for, making your comparison ludicrous.
.

Yes Flecc it is a bit of a silly comparison in terms of objectives, but the methods they use bear similarities. Do as we say or else you will suffer. I am not totally convinced that they have citizens interests at heart if it affects the superstate dream. Look at the suffering in the southern European countries. They don't seem overly concerned about that. Just keep tightening the noose. I think they included the Eastern block countries out of a need for cheap labour to keep the Western economies thriving, which amounts to a form of exploitation, although they won't see it that way. They are now trying to bully us because we want to quit their club. I hope our government are strong enough to resist.
Changing tack slightly. Was sorry to hear about your health problems Flecc and hope you recover well and quickly. I do not always agree with you ( on EU) but wish you well. This forum would be a much poorer place without you

regards

 

[Woosh]

They are now trying to bully us because we want to quit their club.

They don't even try to hide their bullying behaviour. Let's just wait until we levy large amount of duty on German cars.
The EU behaves like an empire state. Time for us to leave I think.

 

[Danidl]

The EU is a giant protection racket along the lines of that other Italian organisation. It tries to keep payments coming in and control of people by a mixture of coercion threats and blackmail. The sooner we leave the better.

... Come on don't keep us in suspense is it the Vatican or the Mafia or Fiat?

 

[flecc]

Look at the suffering in the southern European countries. They don't seem overly concerned about that. Just keep tightening the noose.

Self imposed suffering due to the corruption and wilfully poor governance of those countries. I'm pleased that they are not subsidising them out of their mess, since that would be squandering the money we pay in. The EU is sensibly presenting a logical choice to those countries, reform or suffer, your choice.

I think they included the Eastern block countries out of a need for cheap labour to keep the Western economies thriving, which amounts to a form of exploitation

This obviously isn't true, since with grants and loans they've helped them grow and enrich their economies. This has been so successful that many ex-pats have returned to work in their home countries. The stronger economic position now is that it is no longer a clear cut advantage for firms to move production to some of those countries, the choice of cheap enough ones greatly reduced.

In this connection, don't forget the freedom of movement. If a Czech worker building VW's Skodas is far worse off than the German worker building the VW versions, they just move and work there, and in the early days they did that. They don't any more since there's no longer the advantage. Likewise the Polish workers building Fiats are now as well off as their Italian counterparts.

Thank you for your kind words concerning my current health, they are greatly appreciated.
.
.

 

[gray198]

... Come on don't keep us in suspense is it the Vatican or the Mafia or Fiat?

All of them especially Fiat (lol)

 

[Zlatan]

Folk can adopt false ID,s, alter their style if writing and even change their political views but changing ones nature is almost impossible, especially pedantic types. The person involved knows who this is meant for !!

 

[Danidl]

Regarding the Gibraltar clause, Spain can veto the agreement but it still has to pass article 218 requirements as stated in article 50:

b) By way of derogation from point (a), when the Council does not act on a proposal from the Commission or from the High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy, the qualified majority shall be defined as at least 72% of the members of the Council (19.44 countries) representing Member States comprising at least 65% of the population of these States - pie chart link needs to be altered to exclude the UK for true percentage values.

https://europa.eu/european-union/about-eu/figures/living_en

... Yes I knew about the qualified majority, but note the following.
1, it reduces if ,even a little the UK ability to negotiate
2. Should the UK seek to extend negotiations beyond the march 2019, where it needs unanimous support, a huge amount.

How many other wrinkles will come out of the woodwork, where any slights, real or imaginary, against any of the 27 will come back to haunt the UK?
E.g are the French really happy about the Iles Normand.. channel islands to you, which are obviously in French waters remaining outside the single market and remaining crown property?..It is very easy to construct scenarios where every piece of real estate , every slight, every insult gets magnified
The threat in Mrs May s letter about removing cooperation in security matters, now being recognised as a faux pas will not be well received

 

[tillson]

The threat in Mrs May s letter about removing cooperation in security matters, now being recognised as a faux pas will not be well received

I agree on that point. It was a silly thing to do and totally unnecessary. Security and citizens safety is not a bargaining chip.The UK needs to maintain a cordial persona at all times. The EU will then be exposed for what it is.