Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
The government have walked away from funding social care....Surrey council is proposing a referendum on increasing council tax by 15% to fund council tax yet Boris seems to be let off his lie about the 350 million per week that would help pay for social care or the NHS and we seem to have limitless funds to support Brexit or support the resultant tax losses.
What will be the reaction of Brexiters if the ultimate deal that May achieves leaves the country so poor that everyone is worse off?
My local city is proposing to expand the housing stock by 5000 yet are closing our hospital to build more houses on the site,geographically we should be the logical base for a new hospital.
KudosDave
What will be the reaction of Brexiters if the ultimate deal that May achieves leaves the country so poor that everyone is worse off?
My local city is proposing to expand the housing stock by 5000 yet are closing our hospital to build more houses on the site,geographically we should be the logical base for a new hospital.
KudosDave
Couldnt agree more Dave, something needs to change.Country really is in a mess in many places.Its our current regime and system of governance thats got us here. not Brexit.
I am very pleased to hear that your wife is a survivor of the big C, that is truly excellent news indeed, do give her my regards and hope that she isn't troubled with long term side effects as so many of us are (mine have at last ceased)
As to Clegg or Corbyn , does it matter really who goes?
I still think that it is counter productive to antagonise an opponent with propaganda before an important campaign to get the deal you want, not a good strategy, nor even temporary tactic.
You will note that the strategy I outlined did NOT reveal our ambitions at all.
Certainly in the many hundreds of complaints i dealt with it was only ever mentioned incrementally, as and when I deemed appropriate and NOTHING WHATEVER was ruled out before the contest of wills took place.
The idea is to go in with an apparently Empty Slate and fair and open mind, but come out with what you actually want written on it as an agreement
If you can't do that, best the job be given to someone with the mental agility to do so.
Frankly none of them strike me as having the nous to pull it off.
I absolutely agree.on the governments culpability, but that doesn't make Brexit a good idea.
Mrs May is still using the same brexit rhetoric in addressing the EU27 who do not care for her argument.
The synopsis is simple: UK needs a deal with the EU that has to be better than WTO. The EU does not need it because it represents only 5% duty on average * 3% of their business, that is 0.15% of their turnover, a very small amount. They can wait as long as it takes.
The real battleground is investments. All sides know that brexit will deter FDI into the UK while the smart money move to members of the EU27.
FDIs not only create jobs here, they promote trade around the world.
Mrs May's threat of lowering CT has only limited effect on attracting FDI. We do not want to become Luxembourg which hosts a lot of companies but their factories are not there.
The idea that we can become a supersized Singapore would not stand up to scrutiny. Singapore has a huge number of workers coming from Malaysia every day to work in their factories. Who is going to do their jobs in ours? Will our boys like to fill in these jobs?
The cost of brexit to Joe public is inflation. The longer this deal takes to complete, the cost in form of inflation in the UK will rise. It will become quickly prohibitive. What Joe public will not miss is the effect of inflation on their standard of living. Yes, their wages will rise but public services will get worse, housing cost will rise. Eventually, one day, the BoE will need to reduce stimulus to the economy. That day, a whole house of card built on easy money will be shaken. Joe public will look back at the last decade or two and wonder if it was all worth it.
The synopsis is simple: UK needs a deal with the EU that has to be better than WTO. The EU does not need it because it represents only 5% duty on average * 3% of their business, that is 0.15% of their turnover, a very small amount. They can wait as long as it takes.
The real battleground is investments. All sides know that brexit will deter FDI into the UK while the smart money move to members of the EU27.
FDIs not only create jobs here, they promote trade around the world.
Mrs May's threat of lowering CT has only limited effect on attracting FDI. We do not want to become Luxembourg which hosts a lot of companies but their factories are not there.
The idea that we can become a supersized Singapore would not stand up to scrutiny. Singapore has a huge number of workers coming from Malaysia every day to work in their factories. Who is going to do their jobs in ours? Will our boys like to fill in these jobs?
The cost of brexit to Joe public is inflation. The longer this deal takes to complete, the cost in form of inflation in the UK will rise. It will become quickly prohibitive. What Joe public will not miss is the effect of inflation on their standard of living. Yes, their wages will rise but public services will get worse, housing cost will rise. Eventually, one day, the BoE will need to reduce stimulus to the economy. That day, a whole house of card built on easy money will be shaken. Joe public will look back at the last decade or two and wonder if it was all worth it.
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That certainly could be case..so my feeling is support the one who is doing (well trying)
Thanks for thoughts..
The problem is we have no real knowledge of exactly what her motives and objectives are, and the last thing on my mind (and I suspect in many other people's minds too) is that she can be trusted to pull of the best possible deal for the public.
Since when did Tory politicians ever do that?
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Agreed.... and just as Brexit isn't the cause, it's also not the solution. It's a handy distraction. Blaming the EU / Immigrants has been the easy option for certain sections of society. By winning the referendum, they are about to find out their scapegoat isn't the culprit.
Never really noted for her stateswoman-like qualities either as a backbench MP or as a cabinet minister, Mrs Maybe has now risen to the challenge of office in the job she coveted for so long. Her great charm and diplomacy will undoubtedly earn the UK exactly the kind of trade deals she and her government have promised the nation:
Tom
Tom
There is both a lesson and a warning in this report today. It is only about some green vegetables for the moment but there is a a bigger problem coming our way and the laws of supply and demand will not favour the UK.
Whatever goods and commodities we wish to import, not so much because of weather reasons but simply because others will hold the whip hand, basic economics and human greed will dictate prices.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38666752
Tom
Whatever goods and commodities we wish to import, not so much because of weather reasons but simply because others will hold the whip hand, basic economics and human greed will dictate prices.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38666752
Tom
I think I agree with that too, Brexit is almost a completely different argument. Trouble is if things get worse, which they were going to do without change, Brexit will be blamed.
In reality country has been in a financial mess for years and divisions have got larger. Dissatisfaction was rife and rising ? My opinion is however that our financial problems are minor compared with large parts of eu. My selfish side thinks get uk sorted, then help abroad, which according to some makes me a racist. It does not.
Should we be diverting money from the foreign aid budget to fund social care and care for the elderly?
I know we read headline grabbing statement that foreign aid money is being wasted on useless projects, and no doubt some of it is. I am equally sure that some of the money does good. But can the country afford to make this jesture when we are too short of cash to look after our own citizens?
I really think these questions need to be asked.
I wouldn't say it makes you racist, I'd say it makes you naive possibly. Do you really think there isn't the money in the UK to solve our problems currently? Its just spent on other things. Saving the money thats paid in EU membership and cutting foreign aid "might" put some money back into the UK pot. But the fact the UK pot currently isn't spent the way you (we) people want it to be, its going to change if / when that pot gets a bit bigger.
Our foreign aid budget is only 0.7%, we can't even repair all the potholes with it, and a long way to make up for the shortfall in essential public services.
Most of the budget is spent to support our NGOs. Half of our NGO staff will lose their jobs without it.
The foreign aid budget is the right thing to have.
It's £12 billion, that's £1 billion per month, which is £250 million pounds per week, which is not as insignificant as you suggest.
This money could do a lot of good here in the U.K. where people are suffering due to lack of funding.
Yep..fair point...But what steps have been taken in last 25 years to address the problem you mention or the very unfair distribution of wealth. I do agree the money is here somewhere...cant remember exact figure but I believe the wealthiest top 10% have same capital as lowest 90% ..Last Wednesday was day when top earners had already earnt average yearly wage...Will that change under Brexit ? Perhaps not but it wasnt going to under EU regs and development..The EU has increased the wealth divisions..(Old ground but Luxembourg etc etc) IMHO EU make all the right claims, talk in a very idealistic social manner but reality always seems to differ..I know you blame individual countries for that, I think EU is culpable .(aswell, not in isolation)
I really think UK will be richer out of EU. Yes , I accept that sounds a cynical , financially minded attitude, but a wealthy country can afford to mend roads, pay for its health service;social care;education etc etc. And yes I know folk dont agree with this but I honestly think its case.
The EU is not the young organisation people make it out to be. We keep hearing eventually... Had EU really had any commitment to reduce poverty; reduce wealth divisions,help the needy do you not think they would have achieved something in any one of these areas.. ??? I see no changes, more poverty where I travel and experience more wealth inequality than 40 years ago.
In China, India , South Americas massive strides have been made taking people out of poverty. We have not seen anything like this in eu..
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I am not saying the amount is insignificant.
That amount keeps our NGOs afloat to wave our flag abroad and helps us spread a bit of goodwill. So most of that is actually recycled by ourselves.
It's a bit like what they say about the water of the Thames, it's gone through 7 kidneys before you drink it.
It's a nice thought that the money comes back in other ways, but it's probably impossible to measure that with any degree of accuracy.
I still think that the £300 million per week should be spent on people in need within the UK first. If there is any leftover, by all means use it for overseas aid.
The 15% hike in council tax proposed by Surrey is to plug a £170 million pound gap in the card budget. That's about 4 days worth of Foreign Aid.
As for the water, I'm surprised it's only 7 times.
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