Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
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Yes, it seems to upset those with a disposition towards grammatical snobbery. He belongs in next cell to Blare .
Agreed..by lying , exagerating, being manipulated by American president and starting wars on manipulated evidence...but yep he won an election..well actually Campbell won it for him. He destroyed labour movement , so yep I can see why some love him.
I have described how autonomy actually works. Whether it agrees with your perception as to how it SHOULD work cannot be my concern. Mutual cooperation need not be a zero sum game as you are implying. Cutting down barriers to trade boosts productivity.
Yes the EU is a trading block , but also more besides..
I have witnessed the gradual improvements which have taken place in Ireland since our accession in 1973 , as a consequence of EU membership. Cumulatively they are spectacular.
How is Luxembourg powerful it is but a tiny state,? but it is wealthy because with small populations it is very possible to increase wealth quickly and . As with property the most important three things are location, location , location.
If any member state is of the opinion that Luxembourg or any other state is breaking EU law or trading regulation, they are free to bring them to EU court.
Yes there are tax loopholes, is it not more likely that large trading blocks are more likely to help cut them off than a myriad of small trading entities competing with each other? I have no desire to discuss united states tax codes it does not address the issue of why the UK is better placed by abandoning it's relations with its nearest neighbours.
Germany is wealthy for a number of reasons but particularly because they have a hard work ethic , and they invested in engineering manufacture when other countries went for the soft option of foisting these industries on the third world. Despite what the traders in the city of London might claim, economic activity is a result of manufacturing excelence.
The fact that Germany did not waste a significant fraction of their GDP on military adventures also gave them more to invest.
Despite some three responses you have failed to answer the question except in the terms that some economists believe that the UK would be better served outside than inside .. is that your final answer?
So you're also proposing we break up the UK because that's a cluster of individual countries that must make agreements that could and will damage themselves for the benefit of all.
Then when we're left as England (the bit I happen to be in)
You're proposing we split that up in the regions, as its clearly impossible to run a cluster of individually run devolved regions for the mutual benefit of all.
So now we've split that up.. .how about we get down to county level... then parish, and then to be honest I want control of my own house council tax budget I'm sure I could police it and deal wth my own rubbish! I don't have kids and i'm pretty healty, so why should I be paying for hopitals and schools for other people... etc etc.
Your logic make's no sense I'm afraid.
Some great marketing speak from Cannondale on this one...
“Prices are not going up because of Brexit, but because of the weakness of the pound following the Brexit vote.”
so not at all Brexit related ....
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/product-news/cannondale-increases-uk-prices-insists-not-brexit-307331?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Social
“Prices are not going up because of Brexit, but because of the weakness of the pound following the Brexit vote.”
so not at all Brexit related ....
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/product-news/cannondale-increases-uk-prices-insists-not-brexit-307331?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Social
Well they are correct. There is no brexit at present so it cannot be that.
KTM
UK is autonmous and has both its own sovereignty and fiscal control along with ability to devalue currency in hard times...States in euro zone do not.
And uf we are autonomous what is eu doing ? Its simply a superficial layer of governance and unneeded bureaucracy...Make your minds up , if it does something what have we seen and how did it do it with so little effect over us ? Fact is it has achieved nothing we would not have without it.
Daniel...
I think yours makes no sense. Its contradictory. For eu to be effective ut needs control, you insist it has none. We are either autonomous or not...we cant be both autonomous and directed by eu. Which do you want ? Autonomy or eu control. We,ve never had total eu control, yet remainers attribute all that's good to eu ?? Tell me one objective eu has achieved in its existence ?
And Danidl you need to research exactly why Luxembourg is rich. Look at its list of corporations it charges 1% for handling all their business, so they can benefit from low business tax rates. Rates other EU countries are not allowed to operate under. Then look up who set system up and what he now does. That's reality, your idealism does you credit but the real eu is not the social entity it purports to be. Far from it.
UK is autonmous and has both its own sovereignty and fiscal control along with ability to devalue currency in hard times...States in euro zone do not.
And uf we are autonomous what is eu doing ? Its simply a superficial layer of governance and unneeded bureaucracy...Make your minds up , if it does something what have we seen and how did it do it with so little effect over us ? Fact is it has achieved nothing we would not have without it.
Daniel...
I think yours makes no sense. Its contradictory. For eu to be effective ut needs control, you insist it has none. We are either autonomous or not...we cant be both autonomous and directed by eu. Which do you want ? Autonomy or eu control. We,ve never had total eu control, yet remainers attribute all that's good to eu ?? Tell me one objective eu has achieved in its existence ?
And Danidl you need to research exactly why Luxembourg is rich. Look at its list of corporations it charges 1% for handling all their business, so they can benefit from low business tax rates. Rates other EU countries are not allowed to operate under. Then look up who set system up and what he now does. That's reality, your idealism does you credit but the real eu is not the social entity it purports to be. Far from it.
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Zlantan, I have indicated that the autonomy that States CHOOSE to share is on a voluntary basis, both by signing various treaties and annex s to those treaties and by regulations coming from those treaties. Once they sign up to these conditions they are bound by them. That is the power that the EU has. If you cannot understand or accept this , there is no further value in discussing it. The fact that the UK, or other countries have the ability to withdraw from participation by article 50 is proof positive of this.
I again reiterate that the internal tax regimes of individual countries is within that countries competence. If other countries believe that Luxembourg or other states is / are getting unfairly lenient treatment then they are free to bring them to court. That corporation s seek to set up offices in that city state is because it is close to the center.
What has the EU achieved... Common agricultural policy, enhanced cooperation between nations, unified industrial standards, improved working conditions, limited the consequences of overfishing , improved air, water, soil quality, reduced transport, logistics costs by common area., Simplified banking arrangements , creation of a common education area.....Etc .
In the meanwhile you have not responded to the main question asked so I am no longer going to respond to red herrings
I am conscious that the EU is not Nirvana, but describe how the UK is better placed outside the EU.
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It completely changed our situation from being a nation if financial trouble, to one with a future, which is no small thing.
Tell me one objective we will achieve outside it, when we had to enter it because of dismal failure on our own when we traded with the rest of the world?
Your arguments are simply circular and intended to demonstrate one certain thing .
You have no idea about what the EU is and how and why it operates,and what we have gained from membership, and have no argument that suggests things will change for the better once we leave.
When faced with that challenge, out comes another rant about Luxembourg, politicians in it, and a personal attack on the poster who challenged you.
The Telegraph this morning
"
Donald Trump 'wants EU to break up in wake of Brexit vote', outgoing US ambassador in Brussels suggests
Mind you that was this morning and who knows what is true about him anyway?
"
Donald Trump 'wants EU to break up in wake of Brexit vote', outgoing US ambassador in Brussels suggests
Mind you that was this morning and who knows what is true about him anyway?
Here is an example of the quality of Government we can look forward to
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/transport-secretary-chris-grayling-says-cyclists-are-not-road-users-a7524061.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/transport-secretary-chris-grayling-says-cyclists-are-not-road-users-a7524061.html
1. greater social cohesion
2. more flexible industrial policy
3. more flexible taxation
4. reduced demand on healthcare, housing and benefits
Are you suggesting these things will actually improve when we leave the EU?
I find that quite incredible as we have no real industrial policy as this is against Tory Principles,
Taxation will actually increase, as the deficit is heading for the Moon,
Demand on healthcare will become worse as more cuts are applied.in an attempt to improve the deficit.
And there are the costs of leaving the EU that amount to Billions for no return.