Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
Judging by the strength of their extreme right wing voting and nationalism, I've no doubt this is already being practiced by many Austrian employers.
Asking permission after the event is probably just window dressing.
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So good to see this government practicing what they preach.
its a total joke.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/11/nhs-recruit-hundreds-gps-poland-lithuania-greece/
its a total joke.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/11/nhs-recruit-hundreds-gps-poland-lithuania-greece/
Yes, if we did it underhand as the others often do. Unfortunately we are sometimes too regulation compliant for our own good. Just ask our fishermen who are so constantly pestered by Royal Navy fishery protection vessels boarding them.
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Is this the same LSE which sucked up cash from the trough of Gaddafi? The one that Gizzapeerage Chakribati is up to her ermine in? Sorry, not a credible source of information. They have lost credibility.
If you want the real answer as to whether the free movement of people has affected wages, ask real people, not the fakes at the LSE.
LSE was just one of the sources... every single independent study has proved its a fact. I'm a real person, and I'm also saying FOM hasn't had a significant impact on wages.
The fact you're attempting to argue with things like this:
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-boris-johnson-alex-salmond-does-eu-immigration-drive-down-wages
"There are other studies in this area that have come up with similar results. Most find that the effect of even a large increase of immigration on overall wages is extremely small, whether positive or negative."
Because you have a feeling, or some lass in a chip shops thinks it must be true, is exactly whats wrong with this debates. You're basing the future of this country on perceptions, not actual information. Which is why we don't have a direct democrazy (deliberate typo), with a on-line vote on everything. We have a parliamentary democracy for a reason.
The minimum wage in France is 8.49 GBP (9.76€). That means that if you work a full time job you can eat, pay your rent, taxes etc. and even have a bit left over for leisure (movies, a restaurant...). If it was 7.50 GBP (8.63€) with luck and housing benefit you could probably make ends meet as a single person living alone because other benefits come into play for families. There are very few new jobs nowadays which pay more than that.
French agriculture is highly mechanised, grapes are picked by machines, market garden crops are picked by machines, only fragile fruit and veg is picked by hand. All pickers whether from France or Bulgaria earn that same minimum wage. Free movement isn't going to change what people earn for manual labour, it can't by law and it hasn't. What it does do is put people who work hard, are honest and who aren't on sick leave every other Tuesday in job spots in preference over slackers who play the system for sick leave pay etc.
French agriculture is highly mechanised, grapes are picked by machines, market garden crops are picked by machines, only fragile fruit and veg is picked by hand. All pickers whether from France or Bulgaria earn that same minimum wage. Free movement isn't going to change what people earn for manual labour, it can't by law and it hasn't. What it does do is put people who work hard, are honest and who aren't on sick leave every other Tuesday in job spots in preference over slackers who play the system for sick leave pay etc.
The single fact to be drawn from the content of that link was that Boris LIED once again by quoting something he hadn't read!
It's dead easy to use google in order to find an article / answer which supports any individual's agenda. Here is one suggesting that immigration does have a negative impact on wages.
http://www.stevenwoolfe.uk/news--press/bank-of-england-research-finally-accepts-immigration-causes-lower-wages
But of course this will be rubbished because it is contrary to what you would like to hear. Only information of an anti-BREXIT nature can have any prospect of truth behind it.
Your contempt for staff working in chip shops and I assume other low skilled employment is despicable. The sneering superiority which shines through in your attitude towards those who are poorly educated, but working hard in low paid jobs is too ugly to put into words. In previous posts, you have proclaimed, it is the poor who will suffer under BREXIT, like some saviour of disadvantaged, yet you harbour such contempt.
You see, those working in low paid jobs are not stupid. They can see straight through you and your sort and they don't like what greets them.
yes, but you've quoted Steven Woolfe, who's talking about the BOE report, and he's read it, and decided to add some spin. He's not done his own report.
Also, you done the same thing... I chose the example of the lass in a chip show, because is was in the news recently.
I could just as easily use a high paid example. Just because someone like Aaron Banks thinks its a good idea... doesn't mean it is. That's not how democrazy works.
That make you happier??
Me and my sort... now who's being judgeMENTAL. You don't know anything about me.
I've spent years working in warehouses and picking stones out of fields for farmers. I have no contempt for any group, not even the ignorant... its no ones fault what group you're in. What I do have a problem is with those who make choices to be lazy, xenophobic, or racist or etc etc etc.
Also, you done the same thing... I chose the example of the lass in a chip show, because is was in the news recently.
I could just as easily use a high paid example. Just because someone like Aaron Banks thinks its a good idea... doesn't mean it is. That's not how democrazy works.
That make you happier??
Me and my sort... now who's being judgeMENTAL. You don't know anything about me.
I've spent years working in warehouses and picking stones out of fields for farmers. I have no contempt for any group, not even the ignorant... its no ones fault what group you're in. What I do have a problem is with those who make choices to be lazy, xenophobic, or racist or etc etc etc.
I have zero contempt, you're confusing my concern and empathy with contempt for some reason.
I know many people who are on the breadline, it is these people who will suffer most, any small increase in costs of food, fuel etc etc with no corresponding increase in wages will effect them the most.
This isn't me proclaiming to be a savior or indeed me proclaiming anything other than a sad fact. If costs increase, which they are it is those with the least to play with who will suffer the most. That fact isn't debatable surely?
None of that is true. Only a very sad individual could lash out against truth and reality. Your twisted critique suggests to me Tillson that you are one very damaged person.
Tom
I'm sorry, but you come across in a similar way to those celebrities who helicoptered themselves into Calais for the day in order to observe refugees through a pair of £1200 Ray Ban sunglasses and maybe a few tearful selfies. It's all rather fake and I don't want any part of it.
The free movement of people has caused the wages of low paid people to be suppressed. It's a simple case of supply and demand. You can't blame people for coming to the UK to work if the rules allow it. You can't blame employers for seeking to reduce their wage bill. But you can blame the policy of flooding the job market with people willing to work for low wages for the keeping wages in certain areas suppressed.
As usual, the remain's response to people who are affected is to brandish them as idiots (as you have done) sneer at them (as you have done) and present them with carefully Googled statistics (also as you have done).
You and the others really are not doing your cause any good. As I keep saying, these hard working people are not the idiots that you take them for.
Instead of criticising remainers Tillson, why don't you inform us of the benefits that we will enjoy through exiting the EU.
I, probably like many others, really want to to know and understand the attraction of a UK outside of the EU but I want to hear exactly how, where, when and why we will benefit, if at all. Fairytales and utopian dreams don't count; only matters which can be accurately assessed and quantified concern me so feel free to list all of the benefits we are likely to receive.
Are you able to do that Tillson? Are you able to sway me or any other person who would prefer to remain in the EU by way of logical, economic argument with no ifs, buts or maybes?
Tom
You are entitled to your opinion. My opinion of you is well known, so I shall not repeat myself.
It is not possible to say how the UK's future will develop in or out of the EU. Each has their sincerely held opinion as to which option is best and that must be respected.
I'll take that as a no then Tillson - you haven't a clue what the future holds outside of the EU yet you want to drag the whole country with you. That's selfish and then some! No plan, no safety net, no fall-back position......yes, I see where you're coming from. Care in the community really isn't working, is it?
Tom
Everyone is entitled to an informed opinion. Not just an opinion. The assumption that any opinion whether founded on facts, years of experience, heresay, fantasy, etc are equally valid is bunkum. Based on your previous postings I would consider your opinion on matters aviation to have greater credibility than those of a pig farmer.
Citizens have a duty to inform themselves before forming opinions.
You forgot to mention, me and the majority of the voting public, not just me.
The majority would like to leave the EU taking the minority with them. That how a democratic decision works.
Your proposal seems to centre around the minority decision prevailing. I would suggest that this is selfish. Oh, forgot to add "and them some."
Sorry to pi$$ on your French fries old fellow.