Brexit, for once some facts.

[tillson]

Birds Eye and Walker's prices going up as a direct result of the 'Brexit'-weakened pound. Tom

I was introduced to Lieutenant Commander Birds Eye when I passed out as a Sub-Leitenant from Britannia Royal Naval College Dartmouth. He was later posted, upon promotion to Commander, to Royal Naval Air Station Culdrose.

I met him again when, holding the rank of Captain, he moved to Yoevilton.

As one would expect of Her Majesty's commissioned officers, Captain Birds Eye possessed impeccable integrity. It is very regrettable that he had to sell the family business, because I can assure you, that had it remained under the Captain's control, prices would not be rising at this difficult time.

 

[derf]

that view works if the BoE is required to keep inflation low by reducing the money supply and encourage savings. At the moment, the BoE prioritizes economic activity, prints more money, keeps interest rate low to encourage more loans, not less, to compensate for reduced inward investments.
This strategy protects UK GDP and spreads the cost among sterling holders. Remainers need brexit voters to come over to their side. Inflation does that,

that I think is nearer the truth than your previous message re lord Ashcroft suggesting that brexiters are somehow sentient kamikaze types who are prepared to sacrifice their livelihoods for the noble goal of becoming free to be closet racists. I think there's a lot of complacent entitlement behind brexit, it may be why wales, which relies more heavily on eu hand-outs than many others voted for it. perhaps a kind of narcissistic over self indulged paradigm fuelled by too much telly and too little getting of their fat arses. It's really hard to know - there is such a complete absence of any thinking or planning or any kind of plan/policy behind brexit that one is left to make ones own assumptions on the basis of cretins like farage urging mobs to bringing down parliamentary democracy or truly unattractive expedient creeps like may being coy. but even if it doesn't work - if say parliament manages to introduce a measure of sense into it all and establish a soft brexit, we are still left, like America if Clinton wins, knowing that much of the electorate are quite prejudiced and not very bright, to put it mildly, and that wont go away, it will remain a problem.

 

[trex]

derf, there will always be racist types in any political grouping but I don't buy the notion that half of the UK are racists or xenophobic for that matter.
One article caught my eye this week is this one, comparing brexit to leavers' tantrum.

If one positive thing has come out of the past week, indeed, out of the entire referendum fiasco, it is clarity: the hard Brexiters can never be satiated, they know no restraint. The territory of reason, constructiveness, modernity and credibility will take work to describe, but will be easily taken. Those in power have left it undefended.

Those in power have left it undefended. Yes, indeed.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/06/ignore-leavers-tantrums-build-brexit-britain-eu

 

[oldgroaner]

I was introduced to Lieutenant Commander Birds Eye when I passed out as a Sub-Leitenant from Britannia Royal Naval College Dartmouth. He was later posted, upon promotion to Commander, to Royal Naval Air Station Culdrose.

I met him again when, holding the rank of Captain, he moved to Yoevilton.

As one would expect of Her Majesty's commissioned officers, Captain Birds Eye possessed impeccable integrity. It is very regrettable that he had to sell the family business, because I can assure you, that had it remained under the Captain's control, prices would not be rising at this difficult time.

Glad to have you back tillson, a little black humour is always welcome, and you are undoubtedly a master of the craft.
Full Marks! (from your biggest fan, ete.,etc.)

 

[derf]

Glad to have you back tillson, a little black humour is always welcome, and you are undoubtedly a master of the craft.
Full Marks! (from your biggest fan, ete.,etc.)

humour is fine, a little explaining why brexiters voted brexit would go some way too, though. it's a bit like cirque de soleil, it needs the main performance, not just the clowns

 

[derf]

derf, there will always be racist types in any political grouping but I don't buy the notion that half of the UK are racists or xenophobic for that matter.
One article caught my eye this week is this one, comparing brexit to leavers' tantrum.



Those in power have left it undefended. Yes, indeed.

I heartily agree - but (and feel free to call me pessimistic) what yore saying is that it wasn't just an ill informed electorate, also a lack of leadership, a tory party exploiting a sheepish electorate to solve its own xenophobic internal struggle. this doesn't make the bigger picture any prettier. I don't think - much as I like him - that corbyn, for example, is electable: the electorate are not sentient enough to vote for him, they are more likely to run after the farages of this world, and there will always be farages.

 

[derf]

derf, there will always be racist types in any political grouping but I don't buy the notion that half of the UK are racists or xenophobic for that matter.
One article caught my eye this week is this one, comparing brexit to leavers' tantrum.



Those in power have left it undefended. Yes, indeed.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/nov/06/ignore-leavers-tantrums-build-brexit-britain-eu

sorry something went wrong with that post: i agree that lack of leadership and defending a more reasonable perspective played a role - or that the leadership we had used the deliberately uninformed/misinformed electorate to try to resolve the Tories internal xenophobic struggle. but this doesn't make for a prettier bigger picture: i don't, for example, think that corbyn, much as i like him, will ever be elected. i don't think the electorate is sentient enough to vote for him. they are much more likely to vote for the farages, and there will always be farages

 

[oldtom]

This is how the tory political machine creates racial bitterness and hatred:



Exaggeration? No, not at all. This is exactly how a propaganda strategy works.

Tom

 

[trex]

and there will always be farages

that I agree with wholeheartedly. Everytime there is an economic crisis, there will be people who lose jobs or are forced to change jobs, they will add to the 'bloc' of angry voters. They'll vote for the Farages of modern democracies, nobody can do much about this.
I think the best way to deal with this is more referenda, more votes. They'll vote for another Farage next time.

 

[oldgroaner]

My suspicion is that the vote for Brexit wasn't impelled by anything more sophisticated than the quite justified need to protest at the way the Country was being run, and simply focused on the targets of choice provided by the Media and politicians to deflect blame from themselves.
Considering the lack of information the public had to work with, and a quite natural human tendency to take the easy course of not questioning the information that had been slanted to make them see the EU as an enemy, the result was inevitable, at least to me, and if you recall i said that at the very first of my postings.
This has been exacerbated by the press launching a hate and smear campaign to keep the Brexit voters in the fold, and many of them are only too happy to claim they had what to them are rational reasons for voting in the way they did, after all, you look a bit of a fool if you admit it was done on a whim, don't you?
Only the hard lesson of having to live with the consequences of their action will sway some of them to change their minds, and Human Nature being what it is, even that is no guarantee that they will change their minds.
This will take many years to reach the point where the country can be put back on a path that is not simply one of committing self harm out of frustration.

 

[trex]

Only the hard lesson of having to live with the consequences of their action will sway some of them to change their minds, and Human Nature being what it is, even that is no guarantee that they will change their minds.

I agree. I think that it's not so much the voters lacked in information, the issue was that brexit leaders use a simpler language, peppered with apparent truths like 'decisions about the UK are best taken by the UK' or 'this country is full', that gets to the point more effectively than any expert opinion ever would.
Let inflation spread a bit longer than necessary, the lesson will be learned albeit the hard way.

 

[Kudoscycles]

What is Theresa May doing in India,it seems to me that what has been achieved could be done by a junior minister.
She seems to have agreed fast tracking some VIP Indian visa applications and prioritising Indian students and finance employees......I just don't get this aren't we supposed to be reducing net immigration.
No mention of what we want from India,access to their service industries.
As we all suspected any trade deal with India/China/Australia is going to be heavily loaded in their favour.....we need them more than they need us.
KudosDave

 

[trex]

They play for time - maintain the veil that they work hard for brexit until next May. Eventually, brexit voters will ask for new elections.
The truth is we can't get a better deal with any WTO member country outside the EU than inside. So May and the brexiteers make it up as the go along. None of their plan would change this situation and will show up as fantasy under parliamentary scrutiny.
They know it, we know it, most brexit voters also know it.
They should keep their fingers crossed that the Supreme Court is going to find for Gina Miller. They can then hide behind the judges for a few more months.

 

[tillson]

This is how the tory political machine creates racial bitterness and hatred:

View attachment 16303

Exaggeration? No, not at all. This is exactly how a propaganda strategy works.

Tom

Like you, I detest the Daily Mail, but I am interested to read this article. I've searched the Mail's news archive but can't find it.

Could you help me please and post your link to the Daily Mail's report on this Polish Inigrant Killing a dog?

Thanks.

 

[flecc]

sorry something went wrong with that post:

A lot of members make this mistake, typing their reply within the [/QUOTE].

You can just edit by transferring the [/QUOTE] symbol to where it should be to correct the post.
.

 

[oldtom]

Could you help me please and post your link to the Daily Mail's report on this Polish Inigrant Killing a dog?

Thanks.

Your post is so stupidly juvenile Tillson that it doesn't really warrant a response but It further illustrates your utter lack of comprehension about what is going on. Either that or you are so deeply in denial that you are removed completely from reality.

For the benefit of anyone who thinks Tillson makes a good point here, it should be obvious to anyone with even the tiniest spark of intelligence, that the post was no more than an illustration of how the tory media wing spins a story. It does not relate to a particular event and only serves as an example of how simpletons are so easily deluded by the media.

Tillson, of course, understands this perfectly well but as he has nothing say about the future of the UK's economic situation should 'Brexit' occur, he chooses to deride other correspondents' posts. Perhaps unsurprisingly, the British fascist movement of the 1930s used that very tactic against other political parties by turning up, mob-handed, at meetings and shouting down any speakers disagreeing with their distorted views. Their heirs still carry on pretty much in the same way today.

Tom

 

[tillson]

Your post is so stupidly juvenile Tillson that it doesn't really warrant a response but It further illustrates your utter lack of comprehension about what is going on. Either that or you are so deeply in denial that you are removed completely from reality.

For the benefit of anyone who thinks Tillson makes a good point here, it should be obvious to anyone with even the tiniest spark of intelligence, that the post was no more than an illustration of how the tory media wing spins a story. It does not relate to a particular event and only serves as an example of how simpletons are so easily deluded by the media.

Tillson, of course, understands this perfectly well but as he has nothing say about the future of the UK's economic situation should 'Brexit' occur, he chooses to deride other correspondents' posts. Perhaps unsurprisingly, the British fascist movement of the 1930 used that very tactic against other political parties by turning up, mob-handed, at meetings and shouting down any speakers disagreeing with their distorted views. Their heirs still carry on pretty much in the same way today.

Tom

I'm sorry that you feel that way Tom, I really am. I tried to reconcile our differences yesterday and I look forward to a better understanding between us in the future.

In your post you made a very valid point regarding how the media can slant fact and portray a situation that is totally unrepresentative of reality. I understand that and I am also aware that the Daily Mail do it.

However, the accusation that you made against the Mail is a very serious one and I think that you will agree, that if true, it needs to be brought to people's wider attention. Therefore, it is surely not too much for me to ask you to post the link to the article that you have. If you prefer, you can PM me.

Best regards.

 

[oldgroaner]

Actually if Mrs May allows the mail to get away with calling judges "enemies of the people" it isn't possible to make a case that the daily mail is anything other than a subversive outlaw publication that has placed itself by its own choice outside the law and the protection it affords?
Which rather negates your assertion, surely?

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[mike killay]

The Judges are functionaries.
They were asked about an obscure point in the law.
They consulted the law, past cases, historical fact going back centuries.
After consideration, they rendered their verdict.
To criticise them for doing their duty is ridiculous.
It is bit like those people who played merry hell about the North Wales Chief Constable, who confronted with horrendous road death figures decided to take the zero tolerance option regarding speeding offences.
Functionaries, doing their duty under the law.
Don't like it?
Well campaign to change the law.

 

[Kudoscycles]

I just wonder how all this is going to pan out.
We keep inventing,or should I say May keeps inventing,new prefix for Brexit....we now have 'long Brexit' and 'in full Brexit',what do these mean?
So I suppose we can have a 'soft long in full Brexit' or is that a clash of Brexits?
Must say I am totally confused as to where we are headed?
Any opinions, as to where we will be say early April?
KudosDave