Brexit, for once some facts.

[tillson]

That's a piece of news that has escaped me but I can understand that there may well have been offences committed in the kind of lie-laden presentation promulgated by the pro-'Brexit' brigade.

From the outset, I have believed that the kind of descriptive language used by Farage, Johnson and several other 'Brexit' spokespersons was completely beyond the pale. That their message was so warmly received by some of the nastiest, racist groups and pseudo-political movements in the country was telling enough that this was no ordinary political situation.

I would dearly love to see some of the fascist rabble-rousers found guilty of offences under electoral law and locked up for their wilful attempt to mislead the people though lies and distortion of facts.

Tom

Good afternoon Old Tom,

Whilst I can empathise with your anger and frustration over the promises made during the run up to the referendum, politicians lying is nothing new. I too am disappointed that nearly all of those pushing BREXIT in early June have now gone very quiet or disappeared altogether. It's simply not good enough.

However, I think prosecution is unlikely to happen or will fail if attempted. Think how many times election manifesto promises have been broken by all political sides. Unfortunately, telling lies has become the political norm.

Also, a successful prosecution would need to prove mens rea and given the rapidly changing dynamic world of politics, that would be difficult to prove and easy to defend. Frustrating as it is, I don't think there is any chance of a prosecution. A token CPS review to act as soothing ointment, but that's about all.

 

[derf]

Good afternoon Old Tom,

Whilst I can empathise with your anger and frustration over the promises made during the run up to the referendum, politicians lying is nothing new. I too am disappointed that nearly all of those pushing BREXIT in early June have now gone very quiet or disappeared altogether. It's simply not good enough.

However, I think prosecution is unlikely to happen or will fail if attempted. Think how many times election manifesto promises have been broken by all political sides. Unfortunately, telling lies has become the political norm.

Also, a successful prosecution would need to prove mens rea and given the rapidly changing dynamic world of politics, that would be difficult to prove and easy to defend. Frustrating as it is, I don't think there is any chance of a prosecution. A token CPS review to act as soothing ointment, but that's about all.

fortunately (or unfortunately, depending on one's perspective on the lies, or whether one sides with the liars) actions have consequences. and reality has a way of judging decisions by providing consequences. So there's the market and international investors withdrawing from the UK, prices going up, tax revenues going down, the NHS struggling. and all of this becoming worse. life can be painfully fair that way.

 

[oldtom]

Thanks to JJDO for making this available again at this time.......



Tom

 

[tillson]

Thanks to JJDO for making this available again at this time.......

View attachment 16308

Tom

Tom!

Look, I don't like the Daily Mail, it's a rag and I wouldn't eat my chips out of one of its pages.

Serious question. Do you really think it is that bad? The Mail is a Tory mouth piece and I don't like some of the language used or views expressed, but I genuinely can't see the correlation wth the picture. I do think it's funny though.

I'm not a genius, but I don't think I'm stupid either. If there is some connection as you suggest, I just can't see it. Does that make me thick, a nazi or both? I'm clever enough to have a good guess at what the answer will be.

 

[oldtom]

How does a tory government deal with a financial disaster brought upon the country by the recklessness of their friends, the bankers?

Well, I think we now know who has to pay for their casino-gambing with other people's money and just as an aside, this is the sector where Nigel Farage learned his lying, cheating style, making himself very rich on commissions from other people's investments when times were good.

Iain Banks wrote books which made enough money for him to live comfortably eventually but, sadly, he didn't live long enough to enjoy the fruits of his labour for very long.

These were the words of Banks about the financial collapse and the austerity programme for the poor and the immigrants in order to maintain bonuses for the bankers. Farage and Co diverted attention away from the reckless, (if not criminal), behaviour of his old workmates and tory policies with his call to exit the EU, citing that institution as the cause of all Britain's ills. Simpletons and racists bought into that idea because the media supported Farage and his fascist friends.



Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

Tom!

Look, I don't like the Daily Mail, it's a rag and I wouldn't eat my chips out of one of its pages.

Serious question. Do you really think it is that bad? The Mail is a Tory mouth piece and I don't like some of the language used or views expressed, but I genuinely can't see the correlation wth the picture. I do think it's funny though.

I'm not a genius, but I don't think I'm stupid either. If there is some connection as you suggest, I just can't see it. Does that make me thick, a nazi or both? I'm clever enough to have a good guess at what the answer will be.

Frankly tillson the answer is yes, the Daily Mail is that bad, from the 1930 when it printed "Hurrah for the Blackshirts!" for instance
Perhaps reading this will help
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daily_Mail.
I read the Daily Mail too, so the answer to your question is no, that doesn't make you a Nazi, or if it does, we both are!
What is puzzling is why it has reverted so thoroughly and openly to type over the last three years, there appeared to have been an upsurge in frankly old fashioned propaganda that had been held (comparatively) in check for many years.

 

[oldtom]

What a prospect!.........



Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

What a prospect!.........

View attachment 16314

Tom

Where do you get these?

 

[trex]

And why would we need immigrants from India rather than stay with the EU?

I agree. The reality is that almost all country members of the WTO, even Australia, much prefer a deal with the EU than with the UK. 73 WTO country members have deals with the UK and not many people can name those that don't. My guess she'll soon running out of places to visit.
Despite talking hard brexit, she is doing a good job to swing brexit voters toward soft brexit.

the Telegraph has also made a reasonable attempt at explaining brexit:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/07/if-mps-are-to-decide-on-triggering-brexit-itd-help-if-they-knew/

 

[oldgroaner]

I agree. The reality is that almost all country members of the WTO, even Australia, much prefer a deal with the EU than with the UK. 73 WTO country members have deals with the UK and not many people can name those that don't. My guess she'll soon running out of places to visit.
Despite talking hard brexit, she is doing a good job to swing brexit voters toward soft brexit.

the Telegraph has also made a reasonable attempt at explaining brexit:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/11/07/if-mps-are-to-decide-on-triggering-brexit-itd-help-if-they-knew/

On the unlikely basis that they think that they and the Government are experts on the subject?
Now where have we heard that before?
There is only one inevitable conclusion
Brexit is Unworkable.
And now the Government is going to try the old "Trust me I'm an Expert"
Ploy, but somehow I think that will be ripped to shreds if they do!
Particularly so if it doesn't come out in a form acceptable to the idiot Fringe like Farage and co, and the hardcore Brexit voters.
They have three choices
Come clean and say Brexit is a non starter
Go for hard Brexit and take to the safety of a Bunker
Make no decisions at all and hope they will wake up one morning and everyone will have forgotten all about, possibly by diverting public attention to nice little patriotic war.

 

[tillson]

Make no decisions at all and hope they will wake up one morning and everyone will have forgotten all about, possibly by diverting public attention to nice little patriotic war.

There is a lot of military activity around the country tonight. I wonder if they are getting ready for a showpiece? She is certainly capable of such a thing.

 

[D8ve]

There is a lot of military activity around the country tonight. I wonder if they are getting ready for a showpiece? She is certainly capable of such a thing.

Bloody well hope not. We have no need for any war if we can help it.

 

[Kudoscycles]

O'Leary (Ryanair) says all.....quote'What is Theresa May doing out in India discussing how she can fast track Indian immigrants to the UK when what she should be doing is figuring out how we can stay in the single EU market' ?
Don't think he won't pull his planes out of the U.K.,look what he did to France,he pulled all his bases out of France after his spat with the French government. He can run every route in reverse,especially those to the UK provincial airports,making the bases in Europe rather than the UK.
KudosDave

 

[oldtom]

Make no decisions at all and hope they will wake up one morning and everyone will have forgotten all about, possibly by diverting public attention to nice little patriotic war.

Worked for Thatcher!

Tom

 

[oldtom]

He can run every route in reverse,especially those to the UK provincial airports,making the bases in Europe rather than the UK.
KudosDave

You're right Dave. He has already said as much and I wouldn't want to call his bluff!

Tom

 

[Danidl]

You're right Dave. He has already said as much and I wouldn't want to call his bluff!


My wife went to purchase Ryanair tickets for our daughter today and found that instead of sterling prices were listed in dollars and euro.

 

[oldgroaner]

From the Express this morning
"
Jacob Rees-Mogg praises 'magnificent' press after row over High Court's Brexit judgment
JACOB REES-MOGG has moved to defend sections of the media who were criticised for their coverage of the High Court's Article 50 ruling."

The country is heading for disaster

 

[trex]

he is poison.
the tory party would do much better weeding the likes of him out of their party.

 

[oldgroaner]

From the independent
"
Government refuses to guarantee workers' rights after Brexit
Workers' in firms subject to future takeover could be under threat"

Is this a sign that as tillson put it "The Goodness will flow"
Well it will for the 1%

 

[anotherkiwi]

From the independent
"
Government refuses to guarantee workers' rights after Brexit
Workers' in firms subject to future takeover could be under threat"

Is this a sign that as tillson put it "The Goodness will flow"
Well it will for the 1%

Really OG what did you think this brexit thing was all about? Getting rid of silly EU worker and environmental protection so businesses can get back to what they are all about: making the rich richer. Back to the Great in Great Britain, the industrial revolution, child labour...