Brexit, for once some facts.

oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
Date Monday 27th March 2017

Dear EU,
As you should now be aware, from receipt of our formal notification that we have initiated our exit from the EU under Article 50 provisions, when can we meet to begin negotiations?


Dear UK,
Any time you like.


Dear EU,
Shall we say 0900hrs tomorrow morning - Your place or ours?


Dear UK,
Fine with us - Brussels office would suit us fine.




0900 Next day - 'Good morning and welcome UK. Please take a seat gentlemen.'

Us: "Thank you and can we just say it really is a pleasure for us to be here, finally!"

Them: 'We're not exactly unhappy about your presence here too!'

Us: "Shall we get down to business then? What we'd like to know right at the outset is, what are you prepared to do for us?......in other words, let's hear your opening gambit so we can report back to Westminster with news of the progress made on day1."

Them: 'As we have repeatedly indicated in various communications and in conversations at the bar, you want to leave, fine - just get on with it. There is no deal to be had. You either want to remain in this club or you leave with nothing!'

Us: "Hang on, that's not very friendly and we are big customers of lots of products manufactured in a variety of EU countries - think how much trade your peoples will lose if we stop buying your products! Your economies will suffer enormously."

Them: 'If there's nothing else gentlemen, I think we'll call it a day then. Shall we say, same time, same place tomorrow?'

Us: "Is that it? Don't you even want to negotiate so you get a good deal too?"

Them: 'Close the door on your way out gentlemen.'


If the real scenario should bear any resemblance to the above, It's not difficult to see how negotiations may become very protracted and these trade agreements we need might take many years to resolve.

Perhaps I am being overly pessimistic but I just can't see what ammunition we have at our disposal to be taken seriously by the other 27 states. To imagine that all their economies rely on Britain's buying power is sheer arrogance. As for exports, we might manage to flog the rest of the world a few JCBs for a while but it's a bit of a stretch to imagine we manufacture enough of anything that Europe particularly needs from the UK that they can't source elsewhere....and probably cheaper. Then throw in punitive trade barriers!


0900hrs Day2 - Them: 'Good morning again gentlemen. Before we begin, We have an announcement to make. As of the beginning of the next financial quarter, all EU monetary transactions will be conducted through the European Central Bank in Frankfurt as we feel that is more appropriate and in keeping with the aims and objectives of a union of committed European nations.'

'If you would like some time to digest that matter and liaise with Westminster, we can take a break and resume discussions, shall we say after lunch?'

I'm sure someone can envisage a better situation than me but I can't get beyond the George Orwell picture that the present situation conjures up.:(

Tom
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
Date Monday 27th March 2017

Dear EU,
As you should now be aware, from receipt of our formal notification that we have initiated our exit from the EU under Article 50 provisions, when can we meet to begin negotiations?


Dear UK,
Any time you like.


Dear EU,
Shall we say 0900hrs tomorrow morning - Your place or ours?


Dear UK,
Fine with us - Brussels office would suit us fine.




0900 Next day - 'Good morning and welcome UK. Please take a seat gentlemen.'

Us: "Thank you and can we just say it really is a pleasure for us to be here, finally!"

Them: 'We're not exactly unhappy about your presence here too!'

Us: "Shall we get down to business then? What we'd like to know right at the outset is, what are you prepared to do for us?......in other words, let's hear your opening gambit so we can report back to Westminster with news of the progress made on day1."

Them: 'As we have repeatedly indicated in various communications and in conversations at the bar, you want to leave, fine - just get on with it. There is no deal to be had. You either want to remain in this club or you leave with nothing!'

Us: "Hang on, that's not very friendly and we are big customers of lots of products manufactured in a variety of EU countries - think how much trade your peoples will lose if we stop buying your products! Your economies will suffer enormously."

Them: 'If there's nothing else gentlemen, I think we'll call it a day then. Shall we say, same time, same place tomorrow?'

Us: "Is that it? Don't you even want to negotiate so you get a good deal too?"

Them: 'Close the door on your way out gentlemen.'


If the real scenario should bear any resemblance to the above, It's not difficult to see how negotiations may become very protracted and these trade agreements we need might take many years to resolve.

Perhaps I am being overly pessimistic but I just can't see what ammunition we have at our disposal to be taken seriously by the other 27 states. To imagine that all their economies rely on Britain's buying power is sheer arrogance. As for exports, we might manage to flog the rest of the world a few JCBs for a while but it's a bit of a stretch to imagine we manufacture enough of anything that Europe particularly needs from the UK that they can't source elsewhere....and probably cheaper. Then throw in punitive trade barriers!


0900hrs Day2 - 'Good morning again gentlemen. Before we begin, We have an announcement to make. As of the beginning of the next financial quarter, all EU monetary transactions will be conducted through the European Central Bank in Frankfurt as we feel that is more appropriate and in keeping with the aims and objectives of a union of committed European nations.'

'If you would like some time to digest that matter and liaise with Westminster, we can take a break and resume discussions, shall we say after lunch?'

I'm sure someone can envisage a better situation than me but I can't get beyond the George Orwell picture that the present situation conjures up.:(

Tom
Sounds about right to me!
 
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oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
But those Indians won't be from the EU so they won't count in the numbers,anyway the Indian curry houses will be a special case,alongside the NHS,the farmers,the research guys,the university academics,the city of London essentials,the toilet cleaners at motorway services etc etc.
KudosDave
Always the pragmatic one Dave! Mere bumps in the road over which our fiery chariots will race towards the glory that will be ours!:D

Tom
 

trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
2,671
After my last comments I was hoping to get a Reasoned argument in Favour of Brexit from tillson.
Unfortunately he did a "Boris" on me; is there anyone out there in Brexitland prepared to take his place?
Someone...
Anyone..............?
from Lord Ashcroft research team:

"Nearly half (49%) of leave voters said the biggest single reason for wanting to leave the EU was “the principle that decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK”. One third (33%) said the main reason was that leaving “offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders.” Just over one in eight (13%) said remaining would mean having no choice “about how the EU expanded its membership or its powers in the years ahead.” Only just over one in twenty (6%) said their main reason was that “when it comes to trade and the economy, the UK would benefit more from being outside the EU than from being part of it.”

Brexiters in their majority are aware that there will be a cost to the economy, they are prepared to pay the price.
 

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
5,566
5,048
www.kudoscycles.com
The next step in the conversation will be....
Us.....we didn't get off to a good start,may I remind you that we buy hundreds of thousands of your VW,Audi and BMW cars every year,if we put trade tariffs on those you will lose out badly.
Them.....don't be silly you love our German cars,10% increase won't stop you buying them. Anyway by the time you get your act together we will be building all those cars in China and you want a free trade deal with China.
We will put heavy tariffs on Scottish whisky and Harris Tweed.
We will stop you having bank passporting rights into Europe.
OK over to you...I think we have finished our chat for today.
Us.....but we have much more to discuss.
Them....come back tomorrow,this is an important subject we are in no hurry 'it is important that we get the best possible trade deal for Europe'
Aside to Fox.....'ere they nicked my punchline'!!!
Us....don't forget we are your friends
Them....see you tomorrow with your prayer mat and begging bowl.
Us....could we make tomorrow's negotiations a bit earlier,1am is a bit late for us.
Them....goodnight.
 

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
5,566
5,048
www.kudoscycles.com
Corbyn is in a difficult position.
He first of all said that he would want to view the governments idea of Brexit especially that the single market should be red lined,and would vote against it if necessary,to protect businessThen it occurred to him that he had many constituencies who had large numbers of Leave voters so 30 mins later he added that he would vote positive to triggering Article 50.
It's the first time that I have looked towards Labour as the protector of UK business,strange politics at the moment.
I read into that he wants to remain but accepts that we are probably leaving but will disrupt the Brexit mechanism without appearing to disrupt,he would argue that any amendments are 'an enhancement of Brexit'
KudosDave
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
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Corbyn is in a difficult position.
He first of all said that he would want to view the governments idea of Brexit especially that the single market should be red lined,and would vote against it if necessary,to protect businessThen it occurred to him that he had many constituencies who had large numbers of Leave voters so 30 mins later he added that he would vote positive to triggering Article 50.
It's the first time that I have looked towards Labour as the protector of UK business,strange politics at the moment.
I read into that he wants to remain but accepts that we are probably leaving but will disrupt the Brexit mechanism without appearing to disrupt,he would argue that any amendments are 'an enhancement of Brexit'
KudosDave
From my point of view Corbyn has lost all credibility by not rejecting brexit altogether, and only a party that opposes it completely will get my vote.
It is quite simply the most dangerous foolishness this nation has faced in hundreds of years, a self inflicted wound.
There is no way it can be made acceptable or hold any hope for the future of this country, it is simply a fascist coup.
I have no time for collaborators.
In the words of John of gaunt
England that was wont to conquer others, hath made a conquest of itself.
Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk
 
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Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
5,566
5,048
www.kudoscycles.com
Brexit is becoming our own civil war,if we look back in history there are so many parallels with the time of Charles 1.
The 'actors' are played by...
Charles 1... Theresa May
Cromwell......Nigel Farage
Charles 1 constantly argued with parliament because he was constantly using the royal prerogative without access to parliament to further his own nest and aspirations!!
He levied taxes on the people,he acted like an absolute tyrannical monarch!!!these included the ship tax,the soap tax and sold off monopolies,he kept all the money for himself.
Parliament hated him,350 were opposed to the King !!
The Scots were poverty stricken but he pacified them by conceding to Presberyterism,they threatened independence!!
In 1642 he fought the combined Scots and English parliaments,he lost the battle in 1645.
He was tried of treason accused of high treason,of using his power for personal interest rather than the good of the country!!!!
He was executed in 1649 by beheading.
During the last years of his reign he and parliament were constantly harassed by Cromwell,who declared the country as a republic and run the country as a military dictatorship. The poor people who objected,known as the levellers and the small land owners known as the diggers were swiftly killed off by a militarised mob stirred up by Cromwell.
Just a few parallels,the judges were right to confirm that May cannot use the royal prerogative and that parliament is sovereign for all our good.
Far fetched,maybe not ???????
Carefull May they are sharpening the axe,hehe!!!!!
KudosDave
 
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oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
from Lord Ashcroft research team:
Ashcroft is a tax exile who promised he would alter his domicile when he was chairman of the tory party and his tax status was discovered. He never did, so besides being a tax cheat, he showed himself to be a liar too.

I would not believe anything this piece of scum said and I would imagine those figures are make-believe, spun by Ashcroft and his selected team.

Tom
 
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anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
7,845
5,786
The European Union
Brexit is becoming our own civil war,if we look back in history there are so many parallels with the time of Charles 1.
The 'actors' are played by...
Charles 1... Theresa May
Cromwell......Nigel Farage
Charles 1 constantly argued with parliament because he was constantly using the royal prerogative without access to parliament to further his own nest and aspirations!!
He levied taxes on the people,he acted like an absolute tyrannical monarch!!!these included the ship tax,the soap tax and sold off monopolies,he kept all the money for himself.
Parliament hated him,350 were opposed to the King !!
The Scots were poverty stricken but he pacified them by conceding to Presberyterism,they threatened independence!!
In 1642 he fought the combined Scots and English parliaments,he lost the battle in 1645.
He was tried of treason accused of high treason,of using his power for personal interest rather than the good of the country!!!!
He was executed in 1649 by beheading.
During the last years of his reign he and parliament were constantly harassed by Cromwell,who declared the country as a republic and run the country as a military dictatorship. The poor people who objected,known as the levellers and the small land owners known as the diggers were swiftly killed off by a militarised mob stirred up by Cromwell.
Just a few parallels,the judges were right to confirm that May cannot use the royal prerogative and that parliament is sovereign for all our good.
Far fetched,maybe not ???????
Carefull May they are sharpening the axe,hehe!!!!!
KudosDave
And Cromwell continued exiling people to Ireland...
 

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
5,566
5,048
www.kudoscycles.com
God you couldn't write this as fiction...Nigel Farage(aka Cromwell) is leading a baying mob of 100,000 outside the Supreme Court on December 5. No doubt armed with pitchforks,cutlasses and hay scythes.
Theresa May should protect the judiciary.
Farage is a despicable guy stirring up racial hatred in this country,we haven't seen anything like this since Enoch Powells rivers of blood speech.
What must we look like to the world,the way we are carrying on the EU will throw us out as undesirable never mind us leaving. So much for us projecting an image of welcoming the world,we will end up an inward looking,racist,xenophobic race,hated by the world.
David Cameron should be ashamed for unearthing all these negative personalities within the British.
KudosDave
 
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trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
2,671
Birds Eye and Walker's prices going up as a direct result of the 'Brexit'-weakened pound. Enjoy Christmas folks as things will quickly deteriorate over the next few months.

Tom
inflation is the only force that can unite the nation because everyone loses.
 

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
5,566
5,048
www.kudoscycles.com
inflation is the only force that can unite the nation because everyone loses.
Unless you have lots of stock and property rich. Property owners love inflation and the BoE usually raise interest rates so savers get some return also the £ strengthens because it is attractive to bring money into sterling.
Classic Tory voters love inflation it makes them feel wealthier.
KudosDave
 
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Croxden

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2013
2,134
1,384
North Staffs
Birds Eye and Walker's prices going up as a direct result of the 'Brexit'-weakened pound. Enjoy Christmas folks as things will quickly deteriorate over the next few months.

Tom
Custard and crisps for Christmas, Ye gods.
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
"
Theresa May defends freedom of the press after High Court Brexit ruling attacked by media
‘I believe in and value the independence of our judiciary. I also value the freedom of our press. I think these both underpin our democracy and they are important.’
The expression "Weasel words" comes to mind, for how can a would be Dictator believe in any kind of Freedom?
Back to the 1930's
"Freedom is the right to say, what's approved
by Mrs May"
 
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trex

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 15, 2011
7,703
2,671
Unless you have lots of stock and property rich. Property owners love inflation and the BoE usually raise interest rates so savers get some return also the £ strengthens because it is attractive to bring money into sterling.
Classic Tory voters love inflation it makes them feel wealthier.
KudosDave
that view works if the BoE is required to keep inflation low by reducing the money supply and encourage savings. At the moment, the BoE prioritizes economic activity, prints more money, keeps interest rate low to encourage more loans, not less, to compensate for reduced inward investments.
This strategy protects UK GDP and spreads the cost among sterling holders. Remainers need brexit voters to come over to their side. Inflation does that,
 

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