back to personal attacks and insults, quelle surprise. you are just a bit fixated with residence and nationality, no? brexit, to return to topic, is about significant more: it's about discrimination, xenophobia and yes racism. By the way, I live quite happily in france and the uk.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
I thought it would,it would also satisfy most of the Leavers and Remainers,there is still a hard core of Leavers who want Brexit to be a disaster for that would hurt the wealthy establishment who they despise.
So,assuming we have an agreed form of Brexit we,via parliament,press the EU for such a deal,that will be difficult because it may be attractive to other EU countries....there is a rumour that Ireland may leave because they have been asked for a big contribution.
The deal clincher may be that we will have to continue with paying the EU contributions,like Norway,but that would seem small beer against our potential losses if we lose the single market and bank passporting.
Why doesn't May produce a white paper in line with these suggestions,it would get through the Commons and the Lords,she can then trigger Article 50 and put our demands to the EU,if they reject it she has the threat that we will leave on WTO rules that will hurt the EU just as much as the UK.
There is that old adage....YOU DONT GET WHAT YOU DONT ASK FOR....
KudosDave
Well exactly. I think there would be a lot of merit in doing that and if nothing else, it would ease tensions, bring a bit of stability focus both sides on something constructive.
I fear she won't though.
derf, quite simply you are trouble and possibly the most racist person on this forum.
I tolerate these infantile little outbursts of yours because I realise you are incapable of argument or reasonable thought. I imagine insult and attack when others don't collude with your prejudice is your default position in life. a more significant problem is that your limitations may well be representative of those that voted for brexit.
Sorry Dave, that spoils it for me. I can't think of any ways in which EU-wide legislation has harmed the UK interest. On the contrary, I think many people in this country have benefitted immensely from laws and rules created and agreed by the EU parliament for the benefit of all.
I also believe that, not only should we remain as part of the EU, we should scrap the £ and join the €, which we should have done at the turn of the century. Had we been properly committed to monetary union, we would not be watching our currency diminishing on an almost daily basis.
Tom
The reason the tories don't want their appalling Brexit shambles exposed to scrutiny or democratic approval is because they want to run the whole show exclusively for the benefit of their wealthy backers, free from public or parliamentary scrutiny and Ukippers are so tied into their corrosive, permanent-victim mentality that they're now intent on defining fundamental British democratic institutions (parliament and the judiciary) as "enemies of the people"
The magnitude of folly in pursuing this course of action will only dawn on the 'Brexidiots' when they find their standard of living seriously diminished and there will be no inflation-matching pay-rises to keep pace.
Only the very wealthy will cope with the aftermath of 'Brexit' - the rest will suffer serious financial difficulty.
Tom
The magnitude of folly in pursuing this course of action will only dawn on the 'Brexidiots' when they find their standard of living seriously diminished and there will be no inflation-matching pay-rises to keep pace.
Only the very wealthy will cope with the aftermath of 'Brexit' - the rest will suffer serious financial difficulty.
Tom
Speculating.....that's all, just speculating - that there are tens of thousands of Daily Mail readers in the 'Brexit' camp so it's worth reminding people why I believe that the majority, the vast majority, of their ilk hold fascist and racist views.
What has a tabloid newspaper, and I'm being kind referring to it as such, got to do with the man in the street and his choice of reading material? The answer lies in the word 'propaganda'. For more than a century, this particular newspaper has been owned by the family of one of Britain's biggest fascist supporters and close friend of both Hitler and Mussolini. Lord Rothermere was a devout fascist and hater of common people, believing that the Nazi party would be a sure way to restore the German monarchy. The rest, you can research for yourself if you're interested.
Simple people tend to believe what they read in newspapers unquestioningly and views expressed in editorial material continually over years do tend to influence the thinking of simpletons. Today, that same rag - I really can't keep calling it a newspaper - is owned by the same family and their editorial content remains in their traditional vein.
The most common trait amongst fascists and racists is that they hate being referred to as such and remain in constant denial though their hatred and prejudices soon become apparent when they are in the company of like-minded people. They like being part of a mob.
You may remember reading about Harry Leslie Smith, a distinguished old soldier. He had this to say some years ago about the Daily Mail:
Mr Smith is a Yorkshireman as is Thomas Clark who publishes his regular blog on matters political on Facebook. Clark had this to say 4 years ago about the Daily Mail and it's worth reading if you are unfamiliar with the nature of the Daily Mail or have never heard of Yorkshire!
http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/daily-mail-olympic-plastic-brits.html
Tom
What has a tabloid newspaper, and I'm being kind referring to it as such, got to do with the man in the street and his choice of reading material? The answer lies in the word 'propaganda'. For more than a century, this particular newspaper has been owned by the family of one of Britain's biggest fascist supporters and close friend of both Hitler and Mussolini. Lord Rothermere was a devout fascist and hater of common people, believing that the Nazi party would be a sure way to restore the German monarchy. The rest, you can research for yourself if you're interested.
Simple people tend to believe what they read in newspapers unquestioningly and views expressed in editorial material continually over years do tend to influence the thinking of simpletons. Today, that same rag - I really can't keep calling it a newspaper - is owned by the same family and their editorial content remains in their traditional vein.
The most common trait amongst fascists and racists is that they hate being referred to as such and remain in constant denial though their hatred and prejudices soon become apparent when they are in the company of like-minded people. They like being part of a mob.
You may remember reading about Harry Leslie Smith, a distinguished old soldier. He had this to say some years ago about the Daily Mail:
Mr Smith is a Yorkshireman as is Thomas Clark who publishes his regular blog on matters political on Facebook. Clark had this to say 4 years ago about the Daily Mail and it's worth reading if you are unfamiliar with the nature of the Daily Mail or have never heard of Yorkshire!
http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/daily-mail-olympic-plastic-brits.html
Tom
And tillson takes umbrage when I suggested this paper and the Express should be shut down.Speculating.....that's all, just speculating - that there are tens of thousands of Daily Mail readers in the 'Brexit' camp so it's worth reminding people why I believe that the majority, the vast majority, of their ilk hold fascist and racist views.
What has a tabloid newspaper, and I'm being kind referring to it as such, got to do with the man in the street and his choice of reading material? The answer lies in the word 'propaganda'. For more than a century, this particular newspaper has been owned by the family of one of Britain's biggest fascist supporters and close friend of both Hitler and Mussolini. Lord Rothermere was a devout fascist and hater of common people, believing that the Nazi party would be a sure way to restore the German monarchy. The rest, you can research for yourself if you're interested.
Simple people tend to believe what they read in newspapers unquestioningly and views expressed in editorial material continually over years do tend to influence the thinking of simpletons. Today, that same rag - I really can't keep calling it a newspaper - is owned by the same family and their editorial content remains in their traditional vein.
The most common trait amongst fascists and racists is that they hate being referred to as such and remain in constant denial though their hatred and prejudices soon become apparent when they are in the company of like-minded people. They like being part of a mob.
You may remember reading about Harry Leslie Smith, a distinguished old soldier. He had this to say some years ago about the Daily Mail:
View attachment 16299
Mr Smith is a Yorkshireman as is Thomas Clark who publishes his regular blog on matters political on Facebook. Clark had this to say 4 years ago about the Daily Mail and it's worth reading if you are unfamiliar with the nature of the Daily Mail or have never heard of Yorkshire!
http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/2012/08/daily-mail-olympic-plastic-brits.html
Tom
I wonder why he does that?
Obviously, at least to me, that is a rhetorical question but I'm thinking, to see if I can give you an answer.......
Nope, I can't think why he should take umbrage but it fits nicely with my speculation that these fascist and racist types are in denial but of course, that's just speculation.
Now, I really don't know where he gets his news from but it doesn't take a genius to recognise that he fits very well with the profile of a Daily Mail - brainwashed 'Brexidiot'. That is his prerogative of course.
If I could genuinely say that the 'Brexidiots' are dragging the country out of the EU because they are good at arithmetic and have a total grasp of international economics, I might be inclined to buy into their argument. Sadly, all the experts I have read suggest the likeliest outcome post-'Brexit' is economic pain and misery for the foreseeable future.
So, as I'd prefer, if pushed, to back the likelier theory of the post-'Brexit' scenario, it would be the one most of the experts predict. Therefore, there must be another reason why the 'Brexidiots' want us out; sovereignty? Nope, we have always had it, unaffected by EU membership. Having EU laws forced upon us? Nope, we voted in favour of laws common to the 28 countries - I think it's called democracy. Being dictated to by faceless, unelected Brussels bureaucrats? Nope, it's not that one either as we play a full part in nominating and ratifying the hordes of EU commissioners, of whom there are....28 - fancy that! As for the faceless bit, here's a pic of the current crop:
There are so many things that just don't add up in this call to divorce the UK from the EU that a bit of lateral thinking must be involved................right, done that and I can't work it out. What's left? Could it be that the British just don't like being part of a team? Is it to do with the arrogance that still persists among some because of the misplaced belief that we single-handedly won the war twice to save the bacon of these foreign people who eat smelly cheese, don't drink proper beer and continually show off by speaking in English?.....actually, I think I'm getting close now.....mmm!
There's probably a word for the kind of person who would wish to drag his countrymen out of the EU, based on no economic or scientific evidence; make light of the brutal murder of an MP and the equally brutal murder of a Polish man in an Essex tory constituency while being totally incapable of describing the alleged benefits of such a divorce.......134 days after the referendum!
The word escapes me for the moment......it'll come back to me, no doubt.
Tom
ps ah, got it! It was in the fourth line of this piece.....it's an age thing!
I think Theresa May isn't a committed Leaver, but she has set her course in that direction,she made the judgement that 17.4 million aggressive Brexiters would be foolish to go against.
I don't think she realised at that moment how difficult Brexit was going to be,she didn't realise that the 16 million remainers would continue to be anti Brexit,she didn't realise the problems in Scotland and Ireland and all the problems of leaving the single market.
To be fair to her Cameron and Co had no plan if they lost the vote,if there had been a Tory leadership challenge she would have had 3 months to think about a plan,but when Leadsom backed out she got the PM in days,she had been dropped in the proverbial that Cameron caused.
The Mail said 'she is not for turning',not much originately in that statement.
I agree that May cannot reverse Brexit,she is on a steep and slippery slope with lots of obstacles,she cannot turn and climb that slope,if she tried she would skid to the bottom.
But Brexit looks more difficult on a daily basis and anti Brexiters are getting to find more ways to hinder her progress,Corbyn this evening declared that he would vote down any act that did not red line the single market.
If May went for a GE then the result may be split between Leavers or Remainers,not between normal party voting,I have no idea what the shape of parliament would be after....it would be a very messy situation,I suspect a hung parliament.
Has anyone any idea what parliament would look like if all Remainers vote Liberal of for any candidate that guaranteed to vote Remain,that could be Tory rebel,Labour or Independent.....all Leavers would similarly vote for Tory or Labour Leaver candidates.....that would be a very weird parliament.
My local constituency is so Tory you could put a blue tie on the village idiot and he would get the vote but interestingly the referendum vote was....Remain,40,169 and Leave 41,878... Very close,it would only take a few Bregreters to think Remain and the local Labour or Liberal to clearly state intentions to vote against Brexit and the seat could go away from Tory,first time ever.
Wow,I wonder how Cameron must feel now,he never contemplated the can of worms he opened when he offered the referendum,the damage is leading to such a divided UK and negative repercussions throughout the world.
KudosDave
I don't think she realised at that moment how difficult Brexit was going to be,she didn't realise that the 16 million remainers would continue to be anti Brexit,she didn't realise the problems in Scotland and Ireland and all the problems of leaving the single market.
To be fair to her Cameron and Co had no plan if they lost the vote,if there had been a Tory leadership challenge she would have had 3 months to think about a plan,but when Leadsom backed out she got the PM in days,she had been dropped in the proverbial that Cameron caused.
The Mail said 'she is not for turning',not much originately in that statement.
I agree that May cannot reverse Brexit,she is on a steep and slippery slope with lots of obstacles,she cannot turn and climb that slope,if she tried she would skid to the bottom.
But Brexit looks more difficult on a daily basis and anti Brexiters are getting to find more ways to hinder her progress,Corbyn this evening declared that he would vote down any act that did not red line the single market.
If May went for a GE then the result may be split between Leavers or Remainers,not between normal party voting,I have no idea what the shape of parliament would be after....it would be a very messy situation,I suspect a hung parliament.
Has anyone any idea what parliament would look like if all Remainers vote Liberal of for any candidate that guaranteed to vote Remain,that could be Tory rebel,Labour or Independent.....all Leavers would similarly vote for Tory or Labour Leaver candidates.....that would be a very weird parliament.
My local constituency is so Tory you could put a blue tie on the village idiot and he would get the vote but interestingly the referendum vote was....Remain,40,169 and Leave 41,878... Very close,it would only take a few Bregreters to think Remain and the local Labour or Liberal to clearly state intentions to vote against Brexit and the seat could go away from Tory,first time ever.
Wow,I wonder how Cameron must feel now,he never contemplated the can of worms he opened when he offered the referendum,the damage is leading to such a divided UK and negative repercussions throughout the world.
KudosDave
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I also agree that the EU has done some good work on EU laws and to be honest I don't know a law that I personally would disagree with. I am taking on board that it was a requirement of Leavers to have the ability to make and control our laws and veto future laws.
If Remainers and Leavers are to find some common ground on the form of Brexit both sides are going to have to compromise. My red line is staying in the single market.
I cannot agree that we should be part of the Euro,there is much trouble ahead for that currency and we are best out of it,we have enough trouble trying to establish a negotiation with this crazy Brexit without throwing the Euro into the pot.
KudosDave
none of them have a clue what they are doing nor do they care as long as there making millions the rest of us can go jump off a cliff.
That's what I fail to understand how May and Co are benefiting from this Brexit experiment....as I have previously stated I think May was desperate to get the PM job and Brexit came part of the package,she can't figure a way of getting out of it.
KudosDave
private company contracts the lot are corrupt to the core for the sake of greed and there personnel gain.
From the Daily Heil Sorry Mail this morning
"
Brexit blocker's war with EU-hating husband: She said he physically abused her... he said she cheated on him and had a drink problem"
A true measure of the dignity of this paper and it seems it's estimate of the sensitivities and gullibility of it's readers.
A scurrilous personal attack.
Damaging to the country, and this rag has been from the first edition before the second world war.
"
Brexit blocker's war with EU-hating husband: She said he physically abused her... he said she cheated on him and had a drink problem"
A true measure of the dignity of this paper and it seems it's estimate of the sensitivities and gullibility of it's readers.
A scurrilous personal attack.
Damaging to the country, and this rag has been from the first edition before the second world war.
Lets have a recap.
Come on tillson. I seem to have forgotten at this point what Brexit voters thought they would get out of this referendum.
Would you be so good enough as to enlighten me?
The problem I have is in relating the wish expressed to leave the EU with what the likely outcome could or will turn out to be, for the following reasons.
So now, rather than some juvenile hedging and personal attacks, let's hear your defence of Brexit, less the usual bluster and evasive tactics
What in fact is the Silver lining on this particular cloud?
When and how will "The Goodness start to flow" and what form will it take?
Come on tillson. I seem to have forgotten at this point what Brexit voters thought they would get out of this referendum.
Would you be so good enough as to enlighten me?
The problem I have is in relating the wish expressed to leave the EU with what the likely outcome could or will turn out to be, for the following reasons.
- Immigration is unlikely to reduce and in any case as the Government has stated it's intent to control the numbers coming in and they may well rise
- Given the numbers of immigrants among the population (ignoring the fact that we are all immigrants really,) no one is going to be sent back home are they, and the ethnic mix of the population will, due to the Birth rate, become even more diverse.
- No more jobs for the boys are going to be generated that have been taken allegedly by "Polish" or other workers, they are here, "Get over it"
- If the "Foreign" workers were to leave the NHS it would take twenty years to get it up and running again.
- The Administration costs and even the skills needed to monitor immigrant movements have so far proved beyond both the skill and the will of our Government.
- Controlling our Borders is beyond our means, made worse by the deteriorating trade situation as we don't have either the boats or personnel to cover 7500 miles of coastline, the airports or even at times the channel tunnel, or the money to put all that into operation.
- We are literally unable to make ends meet NOW and leaving the EU will make it infinitely harder.
- May has chosen three stooges as Fall Guys to head our campaign to leave the EU and negotiate trade deals (or not as the case may be)
- The Fascist press (yes, historically this is a proven fact and checkable) are for reasons of their own sowing dissent among the less well mentally endowed, they are in contempt of the legal system and getting worse with each outrageous headline.
public enemies describes them quite accurately. - Not a single promise made to obtain the Leave vote has or will be honoured.
- Import cost rises are creating an inflation spiral which will only get worse.
- Still no plan, just juvenile catchphrases that sound more and more hollow every day.
- The so called industrial sector is almost exclusively Foreign owned, Tax incomes from them are compromised by Government secret deals with them, and they may or may not stay here.
- What natural resources we still have are too expensive to exploit.
- The Services sector has an uncertain future and any weakness there spells disaster for the economy
- No one who says we must break free from "EU Laws" and "EU tyranny" can actually cite any case of either when the case is put to them.
- The rich have already made killings on the stock market, and the poor have got poorer
- What is the probability that "things will bet better" outside the EU?
So now, rather than some juvenile hedging and personal attacks, let's hear your defence of Brexit, less the usual bluster and evasive tactics
What in fact is the Silver lining on this particular cloud?
When and how will "The Goodness start to flow" and what form will it take?
I really can't be bothered.
I think that BREXIT is potentially a good thing and you don't. That is all that has been agreed upon and that is all that we are likely to agree upon. In terms of influencing anything? We are all shitmunchers and our opinions will not and do not matter.
One thing that the referendum has done is to set people against one another and that is deeply regrettable. For example, old tom and I had the occasional off-forum chat prior to this thread. It was always polite and friendly in both directions. Now look where we are. He thinks I'm a racist and I think he's a ****. Is that a good situation?
In truth, I don't think old tom is a **** and I don't dislike him, but I am angry and hurt that he has branded me a racist and that has led us to this unpleasant situation. Of course it's futile.
I don't know you, old tom, derf, flec or any of you. We are all nothing more than messages on a computer screen to each other, which when looked at in this context make it very silly.
So, I will say to you all that I am sorry if I have offended any of you and that I am going to draw a line under all that has been said.
All the best.